Dosing Vinegar

[Susan Edwards]

I've decided I need to do something about nitrates. I know some folk are dead against it, and some, like me, have tanks that seem to thrive despite it. Yet I'd like them lower. I'd be thrilled with 10-20. I cannot get them lower, never have been able too, and they just climb higher. And it is all my tanks! Yes, I feed heavy with anthias (though down to one now and 1 wrasse) yet never see any excess detritus. Water changes do nothing, blowing rocks, blasting sand, nopox also nothing and I'm dosing 7-10 ml (when I remember). Have that chart on how much to dose per day, but don't want to upset the tanks. And is vinegar my best choice. Only the 125 has a sump and refugium. 66 & 40 gal are AIO so no fuge. And no sponges.

Two corals in my 66 gal might be objecting to the high nitrates. Not sure. They've been in for a good year and always fine..

Tank 1 66 gal AIO (Red Sea) 1.5 years old. Has always had high nitrates. Used to be 20-40, then 40-80 and now 40-160, even a day after a water change. I blow, blast etc. Take water from sump, removed sponges in the sump, etc. nada. Feed 3-4 times day. Frozen. Rinsed most of the time but not always so prob. why po4 a bit higher. Usually between 1-2 or it zeros out and I have to dose

Corals in this tank are doing great. One sedosa monti seems all of a sudden to be turning white at base on a few fingers. Reverse sunset turning brown from green yet still has polyps. Acro in this tank is doing good--good PE. So not sure it is the nitrate levels. Leathers big and beautiful, duncan hairy, and very little algae. Some on glass. A patch here or there I yank up from sand. Did pull up two hunks from rock work in back a few weeks ago. No algae just growing everywhere. Did see some growing where I had pulled it a few weeks ago. Not sure if it is just hair algae or bryopsis. If bryopsis, I'll fluconazle tank but it's not bad enough to do anything but watch and pull at the moment.

Fish: 2 blue chromis, 2 darwin clowns, 1 dispar anthia, 1 dragonet, 1 mandarin, 1 bangaii
1410 mg, 440 ca, 7.9 alk, .47 po4 (added phos guard back in), 8.4 ph Alk may be lower due dosing line empty. Fixed and will retest

Tank 2 125/30 gal sump 3 months old. Nitrates in the 20-40 and even 80
This tank started with dry rock, live in sump. Never went through an ugly stage, just a bit of algae that cuc keeps controlled and not much of that anymore. Coraline at around the 6 week mark. So far, the sps's (tenius & stylophora) doing good. Sedosa and reverse sunset doing okay, though the reverse sunset maybe not as good as in other tank. Not very many corals yet. Galaxia doing great, pagoda cup doing great. Zoas and micros okay. Did do a sump vacuum. Using socks but may stop. Refugium has lots of algae on one set of rocks and one monster sized hermit crab. will add more cuc here. Feed 2 x's day. Just spotted aiptasia in my pic so will add a shrimp.
Fish: Ruby Head Wrasse, Sleep Sand Sifting Goby, yellow tail damsel, 2 clowns
1420 mg, 380 ca, 7.7 alk, 160 NO3, .02 phos Took forever to get mag up in levels. working on alk

Tank 3 40 gal AIO Red Sea
Corals and pods with sand and live rock. Coral frag tank. Corals go here to see how they are doing. No fish. Will be adding shrimp for aiptasia. Do toss a few pellets in for the amphipods (sand bed crawls with them at night) and the one hermit in the sump. Will be setting up pod hotels so I can harvest.
1410 mg, 400 ca, 9.6 alk, 80 nitrates

Dosed 1.5 mil to the 66, 3 ml to the 125, .5 ml to the 40. Should I start this low, do for a few days and move up.

Pics of the 3 tanks
66 gal

125 gal

ugh, aiptasia. Shrimp here too....

40 gal

 

[redfishbluefish]

Realize a skimmer is necessary for any carbon dosing. I do see a skimmer on the 125, but do you have skimmers for the two AIO's?

For vinegar, your dose seems to be too low....unless you're just starting out. In addition, you want to dose everyday....and not miss any. Suggest dosing pumps.

EDIT TO ADD: Just re-read your post and see that it was NOPOX you were dosing at 7 - 10 mls. But that also is low for NOPOX. NOPOX instructions for your level of nitrates is 3 mls/25 gallons of tank....for your 125, that's 15 mls. FYI, I'm currently dosing a DIY version of NOPOX with great success.

 

[Susan Edwards]

@redfishbluefish I have skimmer on the 2 AIO's, part of the sump behind tank. I have a dosing unit on the 66 gal and will be getting one for the 125 this month. Wanted to get all paramiters dialed in before I set up auto. So can add vinegar to the 2 tanks. Will prob. not put a doser on the 40 gal unless it really needs it as corals go in and then out. Yes, just started today. A bit nervous doing it. What do you recommend to start out. Or just do this for 2-3 days and then up it for another few days.

 

[redfishbluefish]

OK, I think I'm on the same page now....vinegar!

Here's the suggested dosing for starting vinegar:

This chart came from THIS article.

 

[Susan Edwards]

Okay, so I started a bit lower which prob. isn't a bad thing. Now, the coral frag tank and the 125 are newer set ups. Is it okay to start dosing to try to get numbers reasonable. I can always stop or cut back as needs arise.

 

[redfishbluefish]

If your thing is vinegar, I'd dose away using the above referenced chart. Now I'm a DIY NOPOX user, but believe vinegar would be similar....that is, don't expect results right away. It's going to take some time, especially at your relative high levels.

 

[Susan Edwards]

thanks @redfishbluefish Nopox did nothing for me at all.

 

[Dom]

I've decided I need to do something about nitrates. I know some folk are dead against it, and some, like me, have tanks that seem to thrive despite it.

Why fix what isn't broken?

I'd try and find the source of the high nitrates. Are ALL of your tanks showing high nitrates? If so, perhaps it is something in your husbandry practices?

 

[redfishbluefish]

thanks @redfishbluefish Nopox did nothing for me at all.

It could be that you're "under dosing" and heavy feeding couldn't keep up with the nitrate and phosphate consumption. You do realize that NOPOX is a combination of ethanol (vodka) and acetic acid (vinegar). It also takes time....for me, about 1 1/2 - 2 months before my N's and P's started to drop.

If you're interested in continuing NOPOX, and wish to try the DIY version, it's simply 375 mls vodka (80 proof), 125 mls RI/DI water, and 500 mls vinegar (5%). I'd also up the dose to 3 mls per 25 gallons tank volume.

 

[Susan Edwards]

I am a heavy feeder. I suspect this is the cause. Even feed the coral tank for the huge pod population. Esp. if I try to feed corals. Have suns in the 66 gal. They haven't been opening much lately--not sure if nitrates or the clove coral touching it. Might have to see if I can move it. I do weekly or once in a while bi-weekly water changes, test weekly. Have tried to do smaller changes more often. Might go back to this on the smaller tanks. The 125 could use a bigger change, but that requires more water made up. I've been trying to do at least 2 tanks with 25 gal of each water made up. I need to refine water changes for the 4 tanks (including fish qt) I'm only concerned with 2-3 corals in the 66 gal. I have some sps's ready to go into the 125 so don't want too high there. Yes, everything for the most part seems happy enough but maybe they'd be even happier if nitrates were down to 20 ish. I'd accept a high of 20-40 even. Am worried that at some point, the super high levels will not be good.

 

[saltyhog]

Either Nopox or vinegar will work. I had cyano problems with Nopox but not with vinegar. I too recommend dosing pumps. If you have an Apex a simple one like the BRS dosing pumps will work great.

 

[Susan Edwards]

@redfishbluefish I might try that. I was following the nopox directions for nitrates over 10 of 6 ml for 50 gal. Started using 10 ml and still no lowering. Maybe I do need to use a lot more. I'll maybe use what is left and try your recipe. Maybe add 1-3 ml vin to the nopox and test daily until I see it dropping. Don't want to buy anymore nopox. I have vodka in the house (sorry mom) and of course vinegar

 

[Susan Edwards]

@saltyhog No apex. That is down the line. I have the jebao doser on the 66 gal and plan for another one for the 125. They come with 4 heads.

 

[redfishbluefish]

@redfishbluefish ..........I have vodka in the house (sorry mom) and of course vinegar

Don't use the good stuff! I buy rot-gut vodka.....Travelers Vodka at $12.99 for 1.75 liters.

 

[RCS82]

Vodka is for me,
Vinegar for the fish lol

 

[Susan Edwards]

lol's. No idea what is in the cupboard. When my mom came to live with us, alcohol was out for her iwth her diabetis and the cancer and treatments. So I've kept it for her in case she wants it. have 2-3 bottles in cupboard for 13 years!

 

[alex.mccann99]

I've been dosing Vodka for years. I have it on a Bulk Reef Supply 1.1 ml per minute Doser. My tank is only about 40 gallons of total water volume, display and sump. I dose Vodka for a total of 3 minutes per day in the afternoon. I feed my fish everyday, Rods Foods, Pellets and Mysis, always have near Zero nitrates. It's pretty simple, just need to make sure you've got a good skimmer, because it will start pulling out some nasty skimmate. I was messing with my Doser times the other day, accidently turned it on for about 30 minutes. My fish all survived, but I did get a huge white Bacteria Bloom the very next day. My entire sump was filled with the white bacteria slime and my pH was plummeting because all of the O2 was being eaten up by the Bacteria. I had to do a major water change and siphon all the slime out. Got things all calmed down by now. I did do a Nitrate test and it is Zero.

 

[alex.mccann99]

Oh and I should mention, you don't need expensive Vodka. I just use 100 Proof, bottle costs about 12 bucks and lasts for months.

 

[Robert (Bearclawws)]

My apologies, my computer lagged so I apparently made multiple replies that I didn't realize were posting.

 

[Robert (Bearclawws)]

My apologies, my computer lagged so I apparently made multiple replies that I didn't realize were posting.

 

[Robert (Bearclawws)]

Just wanted to add to this thread that popped up when I googled. I didn't realize I may have woken an old dead post after replying and then seeing the dates. Anyway, I am hoping I am not off subject but posting this..

I have not compared prices of carbon dosing products, like sugar, vinegar, vodka, nopox and so on. I would guess maybe sugar would be the cheapest route & vinegar close to it. I am using algae scrubber and skimmer on my 400 gallon but it is new and all is good so far. I would most likely dose sugar or vinegar if I had to. I have not tried any type of carbon dosing. I read a lot of good things about Nopox and others, but this hobby can be expensive so I look at costs as well as what's most important like, is it healthy and maybe, which type of carbon dosing might have less negative effects if I made a mistake, such as accidently overdosed over time? Anyone know that?

Also, does carbon dosing remove phosphates as well as nitrates? If not, I would want to stick with algae scrubbing as it does both and add a little GFO if needed later on.