Drip Acclimation/Dead Royal Gramma

[C4ctus99]

Yesterday I made a bad impulse buy of a royal gramma. Bad as in I was at petco and said “what the heck” I’ve only ever purchased one other fish from there and it did fine. Anyway, long story short it is now dead. Fortunately I kept the receipt and got my money back but here’s what happened:

the store employee got the fish out by removing most of the rocks in the tank kicking up dust and debris
Store employee in transferring to bag and close bag was exceptionally rough with the fish (probably shoulda changed my mind right then but I’m too nice)
Fish road around with me for 2-3 hours before I got home and started acclimating
temp acclimation by floating 15-20 minutes
Started slow drip into bucket by using air hose to siphon water with a nozzle on the end to control drip
Poured fish and water out of bag and into bucket
Let slowly fill for 30-45 minutes
Netted fish and put in tank

After a minute of hiding he swam around for a minute then decided to hide in the corner. I have a picture and was concerned then because it wasn’t really swimming around much and just stayed in the corner not moving except to turn around occasionally until I went to bed. When I got up this morning he had moved to the other side of the tank and while still staying more out of sight than not, was s inning and seemed okay. Then when I got home about 30 minutes ago he was dead. Had been alive just a couple hours before according to my family.

just trying to see if I did something wrong or got a bad fish or something else I didn’t think about

yes, I know I’m supposed to quarrantine and buying from petco was not my greatest decision ever.

I’ll get the tank parameters later when I get back home, but salinity is around 1.024-1.025 and the tank has 2 clowns, large hermit crab, emerald crab, serpent star, trochus snail, and a BTA. The store employee said their salinity was at 1.027-1.028

this is long so all the pics and video I have of the fish to follow:

 

[C4ctus99]

Couple other things:
Fish seemed to be breathing normally last I saw it, maybe slower than I would have expected
All other fish seem to be fine so far

tank is a 20gallon long fowlr with anemone, had the tank since October with a breakdown and move over Christmas. Lighting is cheap Aqueon lights and filtration is currently hang on back refugium and a diy skimmer that I run periodically when the water starts getting a lot of floating particles

 

[C4ctus99]

Let me know if the videos aren’t working

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Yesterday I made a bad impulse buy of a royal gramma. Bad as in I was at petco and said “what the heck” I’ve only ever purchased one other fish from there and it did fine. Anyway, long story short it is now dead. Fortunately I kept the receipt and got my money back but here’s what happened:

the store employee got the fish out by removing most of the rocks in the tank kicking up dust and debris
Store employee in transferring to bag and close bag was exceptionally rough with the fish (probably shoulda changed my mind right then but I’m too nice)
Fish road around with me for 2-3 hours before I got home and started acclimating
temp acclimation by floating 15-20 minutes
Started slow drip into bucket by using air hose to siphon water with a nozzle on the end to control drip
Poured fish and water out of bag and into bucket
Let slowly fill for 30-45 minutes
Netted fish and put in tank

After a minute of hiding he swam around for a minute then decided to hide in the corner. I have a picture and was concerned then because it wasn’t really swimming around much and just stayed in the corner not moving except to turn around occasionally until I went to bed. When I got up this morning he had moved to the other side of the tank and while still staying more out of sight than not, was s inning and seemed okay. Then when I got home about 30 minutes ago he was dead. Had been alive just a couple hours before according to my family.

just trying to see if I did something wrong or got a bad fish or something else I didn’t think about

yes, I know I’m supposed to quarrantine and buying from petco was not my greatest decision ever.

I’ll get the tank parameters later when I get back home, but salinity is around 1.024-1.025 and the tank has 2 clowns, large hermit crab, emerald crab, serpent star, trochus snail, and a BTA. The store employee said their salinity was at 1.027-1.028

this is long so all the pics and video I have of the fish to follow:

With same or lower salinity I would temp acclimate and then release. Stirring up the sand etc at the store could have released a lot of stuff to create an ammonia spike. However I would hope that they pulled water first. The hiding behavior in my opinion is fairly normal for the royal gramma especially upon introduction.
2-3 hours in the care would be concerning, but totally depends on temperature. I buy fish 3 hours away from home so they often are in bags much longer, but my stores know and bag larger to accommodate and pack in styro’s.
My

 

[vetteguy53081]

Both netting and acclimation are stressors
You did not mention floating bag to adjust temperature but that’s first step. While I’m not a fan of drip method, it is a choice you make
During drip you want to align the salinity in the bucket with that of the tank and keep checking until you match that of the tank
Osmotic shock May have occurred but hard to determine with fish now perished

 

[C4ctus99]

With same or lower salinity I would temp acclimate and then release. Stirring up the sand etc at the store could have released a lot of stuff to create an ammonia spike. However I would hope that they pulled water first. The hiding behavior in my opinion is fairly normal for the royal gramma especially upon introduction.
2-3 hours in the care would be concerning, but totally depends on temperature. I buy fish 3 hours away from home so they often are in bags much longer, but my stores know and bag larger to accommodate and pack in styro’s.
My

Gotcha, did not think about how quickly the bag water could turn toxic for the fish. It was pretty small bag too. I’ll take care not to do that going forward and make it the last thing I do before heading to the house

 

[C4ctus99]

Both netting and acclimation are stressors
You did not mention floating bag to adjust temperature but that’s first step. While I’m not a fan of drip method, it is a choice you make
During drip you want to align the salinity in the bucket with that of the tank and keep checking until you match that of the tank
Osmotic shock May have occurred but hard to determine with fish now perished

I did temp acclimate about 15-20 minutes before drip acclimating. I definitely did not do my due diligence on double checking salinity in the bucket vs the tank. I’ve heard going from higher salinity to lower is not anywhere near as bad for the fish cause there’s more oxygen available, do you know if that’s true?

I don’t have a quarantine tank otherwise I would have done that first. Just looking to see if there were things I could have done better and learn for next time

 

[HankstankXXL750]

I did temp acclimate about 15-20 minutes before drip acclimating. I definitely did not do my due diligence on double checking salinity in the bucket vs the tank. I’ve heard going from higher salinity to lower is not anywhere near as bad for the fish cause there’s more oxygen available, do you know if that’s true?

I don’t have a quarantine tank otherwise I would have done that first. Just looking to see if there were things I could have done better and learn for next time

I believe also that lower salinity is much less stressful than an increase in salinity. Also RG are generally pretty tough.
A qt system is really important. I’m sure you’ve heard it before, but I have had two instances where introducing a new fish that for what ever reason I didn’t QT. (Live a long way from and fish stores so used to buy too many at a time or when going online get too many for free shipping, or when I had a tank crash the night before I received an order and used up my QT for them) and both times I lost several higher dollar fish to an ich infestation.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I did temp acclimate about 15-20 minutes before drip acclimating. I definitely did not do my due diligence on double checking salinity in the bucket vs the tank. I’ve heard going from higher salinity to lower is not anywhere near as bad for the fish cause there’s more oxygen available, do you know if that’s true?

I don’t have a quarantine tank otherwise I would have done that first. Just looking to see if there were things I could have done better and learn for next time

You can lower salinity quickly and safely and raising is actually the caution which must be done slow/ gradual

 

[threebuoys]

Sorry for your loss



While we recommend qt, that had nothing to do with the death. while perhaps something went wrong with acclimation, many people order fish overnight. Those fish likely have greater acclimation issrhanthan yours.

Significant temperature changes while you transported the fish could be an issue. Also, mishandling at petco could have contributed.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just a couple of observations - it does sound like a rough catch up, fish often get damaged that way. I also try to transport fish in bags with just air for 30 minutes, or an hour if I open the bag for new air midway through, and then keep the bag in gentle motion to keep the water mixing well. For anything longer, pure oxygen is best.
Jay

 

[C4ctus99]

I believe also that lower salinity is much less stressful than an increase in salinity. Also RG are generally pretty tough.
A qt system is really important. I’m sure you’ve heard it before, but I have had two instances where introducing a new fish that for what ever reason I didn’t QT. (Live a long way from and fish stores so used to buy too many at a time or when going online get too many for free shipping, or when I had a tank crash the night before I received an order and used up my QT for them) and both times I lost several higher dollar fish to an ich infestation.

Yeah, still getting into this so running 2 tanks is both a space issue and a business issue. I am currently working on building a sump, so may try and put in an isolated chamber for QT. The upside is the most expensive creature in the tank is a $50 BTA

 

[C4ctus99]

Sorry for your loss



While we recommend qt, that had nothing to do with the death. while perhaps something went wrong with acclimation, many people order fish overnight. Those fish likely have greater acclimation issrhanthan yours.

Significant temperature changes while you transported the fish could be an issue. Also, mishandling at petco could have contributed.

Thanks, I don’t think there were any crazy temperature swings, but definitely a possibility. Definitely not taking any more fish Home that have been handled that roughly…

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

My experience with petco is super low salinity, so low in fact drip acclimation was not possible and I had to set up an emergency 5 gallon tank at 1.013 salinity and had to raise it over 2 weeks.

First clowns I got went from looking fine in the bad to looking like they were dying 1 hour into drip, i had to call them and figure out what the initial salinity was as the mixture was only at 1.019 at that point.

When I called them they didn't understand what I was asking, and had to get them to test it after i emergency diluted the water down to 1.016, to come back and say that it was maybe 1.013.

My petco is especially bad for saltwater though, i think its an outlier even given its reputation on here.

They survived and are still around but it was rough on them, ended up doing the qt protocol provided by Jay since they showed severe ick symptoms by day 2, and also had pretty bad flukes when I ended up following right into the prazi pro step.


My drip acclimation I use a heater and airstone since I usually give it 2 hours just because i have a lot of little kids and its easier to take more time than to try to rush it if its close.

I have skipped drip acclimation all together into QT if salinity and alk matches. I know its supposed to be a PH match, but alk is easier to check for me and after airation it matches if alk matches.

 

[C4ctus99]

Just a couple of observations - it does sound like a rough catch up, fish often get damaged that way. I also try to transport fish in bags with just air for 30 minutes, or an hour if I open the bag for new air midway through, and then keep the bag in gentle motion to keep the water mixing well. For anything longer, pure oxygen is best.
Jay

Okay, thanks. I have kept fish in the bag coming home longer than 30-60 minutes before, but if that happens again will definitely try your method

 

[C4ctus99]

My experience with petco is super low salinity, so low in fact drip acclimation was not possible and I had to set up an emergency 5 gallon tank at 1.013 salinity and had to raise it over 2 weeks.

First clowns I got went from looking fine in the bad to looking like they were dying 1 hour into drip, i had to call them and figure out what the initial salinity was as the mixture was only at 1.019 at that point.

When I called them they didn't understand what I was asking, and had to get them to test it after i emergency diluted the water down to 1.016, to come back and say that it was maybe 1.013.

My petco is especially bad for saltwater though, i think its an outlier even given its reputation on here.

They survived and are still around but it was rough on them, ended up doing the qt protocol provided by Jay since they showed severe ick symptoms by day 2, and also had pretty bad flukes when I ended up following right into the prazi pro step.

Dang, that is crazy low. I did remember to ask the guy what the salinity was and he checked and said it was 1.027-1.028 but I should have double checked it myself when I got home and that could very easily have been the issue if it was much lower than that.

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

Dang, that is crazy low. I did remember to ask the guy what the salinity was and he checked and said it was 1.027-1.028 but I should have double checked it myself when I got home and that could very easily have been the issue if it was much lower than that.

Hey, if they got you that answer, they probably knew what it was, staff on duty at the time I dealt with it was refuting it as a valid question.

You did your diligence asking, I didn't and was lucky enough to come accross that right before the incident.

In my experience, all my lfs including petco haven't lied about what salinity was. Thank goodness the 2 others we have keep them all at .025

 

[C4ctus99]

My takeaways from this:

Don’t keep fish in a bag longer than 30min
Double check store salinity myself
Don’t take home fish that have been roughly handled

 

[C4ctus99]

Hey, if they got you that answer, they probably knew what it was, staff on duty at the time I dealt with it was refuting it as a valid question.

This was the same kid who looked like Indiana Jones swapping the idol for the bag of sand when he put the fish in the bag then violently spun the bag to twist the neck up and close it, shaking and jerking the fish around in the process. When I got home today and saw the fish was dead, it had only been for a couple hours or less and was already deteriorating on one side and it’s belly

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Yeah, still getting into this so running 2 tanks is both a space issue and a business issue. I am currently working on building a sump, so may try and put in an isolated chamber for QT. The upside is the most expensive creature in the tank is a $50 BTA

An isolation chamber in the sump doesn’t accomplish what QT is best for. The two main points are to avoid introducing parasites like ich and velvet and being able to treat with medications that will or can harm the inverts and corals such as copper. Neither of these can be done in the sump.
That being said, unless you are buying large fish, a 10 gallon with a hang on back filter and a heater is all you need with some biological media that you can seed in your main tank, and use to establish your qt. Doesn’t have to run all the time. Set it up when you plan to get a fish, or can be set up when you get home with a spur of the moment purchase if you plan ahead.