Dual Synergy Shadow Overflows

Discussion in 'Synergy Reef Systems' started by Saltwtrnewby, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. Saltwtrnewby

    Saltwtrnewby Member

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    I’m currently stocking up for a new tank build my wife was gracious enough to give me the green light on...right after I gave her the green light on retiling the floors. Lol. Anyway, the new tank is a 6ft 240g that I plan on running dual synergy reef Shadow overflows on for adequate surface skimming and turnover. Additionally, I’ve already purchased the CL-44 in Red Mercury (along with the ATO Reservoir...couldn’t help myself), so I really want to use the sump as intended with only 3 drain lines. It’s a beautiful sump and I would hate to have 6 drain lines dirtying it up. My plan is to connect all 6 corresponding drain lines at Y’s somewhere between the overflow boxes and the sump itself. I spoke with Rick over at Synergy Reef and he said that was fine so long as I have a gate valve on each primary line before connecting them at a Y so I can dial each box in. My concern is hard plumbing 6 1.5” lines together and the room it would require to do so. I live in FL so basement sumps are out of the question. This all has to happen between the span of a 31” tall tank and a 36” tall stand. Has anyone had success doing this? I can’t for the life of me find pictures or a video of someone else having the same setup to use as a reference or simply peace of mind that this has been done before. Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance and happy holidays!
     
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  2. Black Pearl

    Black Pearl Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Check out Revtrees build starting at page 64, it can work, I did it but my set up went through the wall and was a pain
     
  3. Saltwtrnewby

    Saltwtrnewby Member

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    Thanks for the quick reply! Unfortunately I don’t have a wall to go through. I’m trying to find Revtrees build, I’ve changed up my search criteria a few times and can’t seem to find it. Can you share a link or advise on how to get to it? Thanks
     
  4. Dogtown

    Dogtown Active Member

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    You'll probably end up plumbing the Y connections close to the overflows up underneath. There is no need to run several feet of independent PVC only to join them up later. They shouldn't take up any more space between the wall and the tank either. Make a drawing and post it here so we can give you feedback. Also, make sure you put some thought into where you place both of your gate valves (two). You want them to be easy to access so you can adjust them now and then.
     
  5. Saltwtrnewby

    Saltwtrnewby Member

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    So here’s a picture of what I was thinking for he plumbing. The drawing is facing the back of the tank. I haven’t had the tank drilled yet so I can always move the overflows to accommodate the best plumbing option. I would like to have the overflows side by side in the center and the returns on each end of the back wall. I plan on having my pumps on each side wall pushing water towards the center of the tank creating efficient surface skimming. If there are better options, I’m up for suggestions. I really want to hard plumb everything and could use the flexible Black pvc from dr fosters in some areas if I really needed to in order to make it work. Another option would be to place each overflow on the each end of the back wall. I feel like this would leave a lot more room for plumbing, but I’m not sure if the pumps on each side wall would impact the skimming or create noise from conflicting current in those locations. I’m going to be building my own stand so I was going to make it 36” tall which would provide me with a little more room as well. The sump is being made with left to right flow. Thanks for everyone’s help and input!

    E43B0B53-8FF7-4B99-B639-9F1ED8EF313D.jpeg
     
  6. Black Pearl

    Black Pearl Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    That will work, except you might want to plumb you emergency separate and to the open part of the sump that way if there is a problem and your emergency is taking on water you can hear it dump and your gate values might need to be closer to your sump, that makes it prime better on restart
     
  7. WWIII

    WWIII Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor LMAS Member

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    That's how I would do it! Also, not sure what type of glue synergy is now recommending to use with their overflows, but do not use abs to pvc "transition" cement. I recommend using medium clear pvc cement. I have 3 of these overflows and the first time I installed one, I followed the directions using abs transition cement and it had a bad reaction and cracked the overflow in a couple places. They replaced the overflow immediately and said they would change the recommendation on glue. I didn't check lately to see if they now recommend medium clear pvc glue, but it worked wonderfully! They were also very easy to deal with as a company. They actually overnighted me a replacement overflow box and it was at my house by 11 am the next morning!

    Let us know how it turns out! Love these overflows, they can handle a lot of water!
     
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  8. Black Pearl

    Black Pearl Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Another suggestion: you could put Wye chcck valves on each return or one where the return enters the sump, this keeps most of the water in your tank instead of it draining back into your sump when your return pump is off. also you want the restart to be smooth on your over flows, and you want them quiet, so you might want to run your primary separate into the first two holes on your sump so the flow unabated, Y your secondaries into the third, the have your both ED go straight to the sump side by side for the same reason as I explained above
     
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  9. Saltwtrnewby

    Saltwtrnewby Member

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    I’ve read about the pvc glue issue before and I’ll be sure to double check that I’m using the right one when I start to put everything together. Synergy has been a fantastic company to deal with! I’ve had a lot of questions leading up to ordering two of the overflows, the sump, and the ATO, and hey were always quick and happy to respond.

    Black Pearl: I’m planning on putting Wye’s on each return lined but I might actually just put one after the Y seeing that it should work the same and save me some money. The way that the CL-44 is set up, the emergency line bulkhead sits over the 2nd sump compartment so it would make some sound if water started pushing through that line. That’s not a bad idea about running both primary’s to the first two bulkheads and then Y he secondaries connecting them to the Emergency bulkhead and then having the Emergency drain line set to dump in the sump somewhere. That would make honing in the flow a lot easier and wouldn’t dirty up the sump area too bad. In a bean animal configuration how much water comes through the secondary line, assuming the primaries are unrestricted?
     
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  10. Black Pearl

    Black Pearl Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I don’t remember the percentage but it’s a small flow that cling to the inside of the pipe and is quiet, remember also to extend your drain pipe below the bulkheads in the sump about an inch or two below the water line
     
  11. mixer911

    mixer911 Make them green with envy R2R Supporter MTRCMember Gold Sponsor

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    Yes this will work like this. Just take into consideration that tying the 1.5" drains together will reduce the flow rate down.
     
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  12. Saltwtrnewby

    Saltwtrnewby Member

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    I really like Black Pearl’s idea of running the two primaries unabated to the first and second bulkhead at the filter sock compartment. That would allow me to dial each box in much easier. Than y’ing the secondaries together and having them plumbed to the 3rd bulkhead (originally meant for the Emergency) and then y’ing the emergencies together and having them sitting over either the refugium or skimmer compartment so I can hear it if there is any issue. I really appreciate everyone’s input and advise in helping me think this through so I can hopefully get it right first time around. Thanks again!
     
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  13. WWIII

    WWIII Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor LMAS Member

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    I run around 1,100 gph through my 2 1.5" siphon drains and have the gate valve a quarter turn open from closed. I think you will be fine!
     
  14. Swoody

    Swoody Active Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Consider up-sizing the drain line size from the point where they tie together downward.....
     
  15. mixer911

    mixer911 Make them green with envy R2R Supporter MTRCMember Gold Sponsor

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    He only has 1.5" bulkheads on the sump to connect with.....
     
  16. Mortie31

    Mortie31 Active Member UK Reef Club Member

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    Sorry if I’m being thick but can you not buy a single larger overflow? And halve the number of pipes?
     
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  17. mixer911

    mixer911 Make them green with envy R2R Supporter MTRCMember Gold Sponsor

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    Size of the overflow does not determine it's flow rate. The pipe size is what determines flow rate. So you can have a 16" shadow with 3 x 1.5" drain lines that will handle more flow than a 200" overflow with 3 x 1" drain lines. The bottle neck is the pipe size. More pipes = more flow. So to get more flow you need either : A: Larger pipes or B: more pipes. Anything over 1.5" is more of a hassle due to it's size than just running multiples. More pipes also allows the flow too be broken up into different pipes allowing for a quieter system. So to answer your question, yes you could but it will lower your flow rates and take up more real estate in your tank.
     
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  18. monkiboy

    monkiboy Valuable Member R2R Supporter

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    @mixer911 rick, what is the updated suggestion for solvent and primer for the overflows being fitted to pvc?
     
  19. mixer911

    mixer911 Make them green with envy R2R Supporter MTRCMember Gold Sponsor

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    Only use standard medium PVC solvent. No primer.
     
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  20. monkiboy

    monkiboy Valuable Member R2R Supporter

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    this work?
    [​IMG]
     
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