Dumb Simple Question

[VR28man]

So, right now my aquarium (29G or 110L) consumes about 1/3° DKH a day with ATI essentials.

I'm going to test out Tropic Marin all-for-reef (1 part system). They say that " 500 ml ALL-FOR-REEF contain 20,000 mg calcium (i.e. 40mg/ml), 950 mg magnesium, 390 mg strontium, 2,800 °carbonate hardness (i.e. 5.6 °carbonate hardness/ml) and 17 mg iodine"

How many ml of this would raise dkh by 1/3°? (I know they recommend starting with about 6ml in a tank of this size)

Thanks!

[to address"why?": as of right now I hand dose, and 1 part would be enormously more convenient. Also, I am leaving for a week and getting non-aquarists to reliably dose ATIe every day has been a .....challenge........ that I hope just preparing 1 syringe a a day might solve)

 

[Kyuss414]

The best way, especially since you'll be leaving town, is to dose it yourself beforehand and test alkalinity before and after and adjust as necessary. 6ml should get you right in the neighborhood of 0.3dKH. 5ml might even get you there, given that you probably don't have 29 gallons of actual water volume. That said, It's never a good idea to make a change right before you leave the tank in someone elses hands. You want to be sure you have everything dialed in so there's no surprises while you're away. I would dose it for at least a week (once you verify a dosage by testing) yourself just to make sure there aren't any.

 

[VR28man]

Following up on a few things.

First, I did in the end switch from 3 part (15ml ATI Essentials/day) to 1 part (6ml Tropic Marin All-For-Reef) dosing right before I left. Honestly this was way easier and simpler on the tank sitter (and myself); dose one syringe in the AM and done. (and prepare 1/3 the syringes and like 7% the total volume beforehand). Previously, we had a big box of sammich bags with like 3 syringes which the tank sitter would pour in; much easier this way and we don't have the issue of alk, cal, mg supplements being added at the same time. (there's no way I can ask the tank sitter "dose one at 9, the second 10 minutes later, the third then minutes later...... notwithstanding that before I dosed half in the evening and half in the morning).

I came back and the tank was in good shape - basically like i left it and did not mess with it in past week. KH was basically on par with when I left. (I've come back to all kinds of things, and leaving for a week or two was always a crapshoot, ranging from 2.5 DKH drops and bleached corals, and/or loads of GHA). I'm very content with that, as well as that my hand dosing regime is now much easier.

Also, I asked Tropic Marin some of these similar questions, and Dr. Balling (presumably the invetor of the Balling method) himself answered (any weirdness or errors below are a function of my German):

1. All-For-Reef can be dosed daily all at once, preferably in the morning.

2. All-For-Reef forms 5.6 °dKH per ml. For a 220L tank, 40ml will increase KH by 1 °dKH you need 40 ml. Please note KH is not increased directly but formed by bacterial processes. [I find that quite interesting; looking at their marketing for different reef products this seems to be a trend for them] You will not be able to measure it immediately.

3. All-For-Reef is a completely balanced calcium and alkalinity additive with all major, minor and trace elements corals need in the right proportions. Nevertheless [he]
recommends to do water changes to keep nutrients like phosphate and nitrate balanced. A water change of 10 % weekly like frequently recommended may not be necessary but [he] would not sacrifice water changes completely. [this is in contrast to Triton, ATI essentials, and from my recollection ESV which recommend that normally the user not do water changes]

 

[vetteguy53081]

Because it has KH, dose it at night when ph likely drops

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Because it has KH, dose it at night when ph likely drops

Which product? Some lower pH and consume O2, so night would not be my pick for those.

 

[vetteguy53081]

You want to raise at night. Kalk and alkalinity will accomplish this for you

 

[VR28man]

Which product? Some lower pH and consume O2, so night would not be my pick for those.

Yeah, since Dr. Balling/Tropic Marin state that All-For-Reef is bacteria based (vice a method that adds bicarbonate), and recommends dosing in the morning, it would stand to reason that the bacteria consume O2 in doing whatever they do to rase KH.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You want to raise at night. Kalk and alkalinity will accomplish this for you

Fair enough. But this thread is about a product that doesnt raise pH and which may consume O2. Thus we need to be clear what product is being used.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yeah, since Dr. Balling/Tropic Marin state that All-For-Reef is bacteria based (vice a method that adds bicarbonate), and recommends dosing in the morning, it would stand to reason that the bacteria consume O2 in doing whatever they do to rase KH.

Correct reasoning, but we do not need to wonder. we know exactly what it does and consuming O2 will happen to convert formate into bicarbonate.

 

[VR28man]

Correct reasoning, but we do not need to wonder. we know exactly what it does and consuming O2 will happen to convert formate into bicarbonate.

Well, then for those of us who don't know reef products and bio-chem so well........

So the product has formate and/or bacteria, and the bacteria convert the formate into bicarbonate, using up O2 in the process? Do they excrete anything (e.g. CO2?) in the process?

[obviously I'm ignorant in this beyond "put it in and watch the number on the Hanna checker". Thanks, Randy, what you've already said is quite interesting]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There's no bacteria in it. The main ingredient is calcium formate.

Here's the balanced equation for the aerobic metabolism of formate:

O2 + 2HCO2- --> 2CO2 + 2OH- +

The OH- and CO2 can be thought of together as bicarbonate, so dosing formate is akin to dosing bicarbonate plus some O2 consumption.

Similar products made from calcium acetate consume more O2 and produce more CO2 per unit of alk added.