Duncan Coral closed up for months

[tomderly]

Dear Reefers,

I had gotten my Duncan about 6 months ago (my tank was 6months old at the time). About 3 months into having it, it split into 6-8 heads. My two clowns started trying to host it, and it was completely sucked into its tube for 2 entire weeks. I thought it was going to die. I let it go and crossed my fingers that it would eventually tolerate my clowns constantly yanking on its tentacles. Eventually it did get better, but has never fully recovered since the clowns started hosting it. It has looked like this for over 3 months now, and I have yet to see its tentacles extended in 4ish months. I cant tell if there’s something else in the water causing this (or a lack there of). Maybe lighting? Or maybe the clowns are keeping my Duncan in stress? Any help is greatly appreciated

Parameters:
Calcium: 470
Alk: 11.2 dkH
Phos: 0
Nitrate: 0
Mg: 1240
Ph: 8.2
Salt: 1.026
*20 gallon tank, Ive been dosing vinegar for past 3 weeks. I have 2 bubble tip anemones that split, a chalice, acan, zoas, and a softball sized frammer that grows like a weed. I recently had an alveopora that stopped opening and eventually perished.

 

[Dkmoo]

I dont think its the clown or lighting. Duncans generally don't require that much light.

Good thing is, I can still see the stalk covered in tissue, indicating that it still somewhat healthy.

From your params, I think your alk is too high. Try to slowly reduce it to the 8 to 9 range. Also no3 and po4 shouldn't be at 0, these are essential nutrients that corals need. I would stop the carbon dosing until these levels come back up a bit. Anywhere between 2 to 10 ppm no3, and. 01 to .05 ppm po4 should be fine

 

[attiland]

I dont think its the clown or lighting. Duncans generally don't require that much light.

Good thing is, I can still see the stalk covered in tissue, indicating that it still somewhat healthy.

From your params, I think your alk is too high. Try to slowly reduce it to the 8 to 9 range. Also no3 and po4 shouldn't be at 0, these are essential nutrients that corals need. I would stop the carbon dosing until these levels come back up a bit. Anywhere between 2 to 10 ppm no3, and. 01 to .05 ppm po4 should be fine

My clowns are also hosted by the Duncan. It absolutely hates it but keep going and more heads are coming too.
I couldn’t say any better the phosphate and nitrate can not be 0 or it closes up. In fact nitrate under 2ppm instantly showed on my Duncan.
It hates big changes too in alkalinity and magnesium.

 

[tomderly]

I dont think its the clown or lighting. Duncans generally don't require that much light.

Good thing is, I can still see the stalk covered in tissue, indicating that it still somewhat healthy.

From your params, I think your alk is too high. Try to slowly reduce it to the 8 to 9 range. Also no3 and po4 shouldn't be at 0, these are essential nutrients that corals need. I would stop the carbon dosing until these levels come back up a bit. Anywhere between 2 to 10 ppm no3, and. 01 to .05 ppm po4 should be fine

Right, I was having issues with too much Nitrate for a while. Before my carbon dosing, i was experiencing Nitrate levels of 40-50ppm. Not sure what is worse, 0 or 50. The duncan hasnt had any reaction to the drop from 50 to 0 which makes me think Nitrate isn’t entirely whats making it unhappy. But my Phosphates have always been 0 since march, maybe thats where my issue is?

Also, I just wanted to add that my alk was between 8-9 dkH for several months and only recently raised my alk above 10 about 2 weeks ago to see if that had any effect. Thank you for your response

 

[Dkmoo]

Right, I was having issues with too much Nitrate for a while. Before my carbon dosing, i was experiencing Nitrate levels of 40-50ppm. Not sure what is worse, 0 or 50. The duncan hasnt had any reaction to the drop from 50 to 0 which makes me think Nitrate isn’t entirely whats making it unhappy. But my Phosphates have always been 0 since march, maybe thats where my issue is?

Also, I just wanted to add that my alk was between 8-9 dkH for several months and only recently raised my alk above 10 about 2 weeks ago to see if that had any effect. Thank you for your response

Regarding carbon dosing - check out the below video. It doesn't directly talk about it but does talk about the underlying interaction of feeding bacteria with carbons and how it could be detrimental to corals.

Basically. Carbon feeds both good and bad bacteria and you have no control over which ones it feeds, so while it has the observable result of feeding the nitrifying bacteria to lower your no3, the result of the bad bacteria is harder to observe and could be contributing to why certain corals struggle - it basically depends on what specific bacteria thats on the surface of that duncan frag

 

[tomderly]

Regarding carbon dosing - check out the below video. It doesn't directly talk about it but does talk about the underlying interaction of feeding bacteria with carbons and how it could be detrimental to corals.

Basically. Carbon feeds both good and bad bacteria and you have no control over which ones it feeds, so while it has the observable result of feeding the nitrifying bacteria to lower your no3, the result of the bad bacteria is harder to observe and could be contributing to why certain corals struggle - it basically depends on what specific bacteria thats on the surface of that duncan frag

Thank you,
I did not intend to use carbon dosing as a long-term treatment for my nitrate levels. It was a temporary solution until i fixed the underlying issue that was causing the nitrate spike. Im not sure if something was dying or if i was overfeeding fish/corals. Either way, too high nitrates are no longer a problem so its not necessary for me to continue carbon dosing anymore. However, I would like to figure out a way to raise my phosphate levels since they seem to be stuck at 0. Do you have any suggestions for raising phos? Does adding fish or feeding more add phos?

*Side note, My test kits only measure 0, 5, 10, 20 increments for nitrates and 0, .25, .5, 1 increments for phos so if I had a nitrate level of 2ppm, it would probably show up as 0ppm on my kit

 

[Dkmoo]

Thank you,
I did not intend to use carbon dosing as a long-term treatment for my nitrate levels. It was a temporary solution until i fixed the underlying issue that was causing the nitrate spike. Im not sure if something was dying or if i was overfeeding fish/corals. Either way, too high nitrates are no longer a problem so its not necessary for me to continue carbon dosing anymore. However, I would like to figure out a way to raise my phosphate levels since they seem to be stuck at 0. Do you have any suggestions for raising phos? Does adding fish or feeding more add phos?

*Side note, My test kits only measure 0, 5, 10, 20 increments for nitrates and 0, .25, .5, 1 increments for phos so if I had a nitrate level of 2ppm, it would probably show up as 0ppm on my kit

This is what I would do

1) get a better more accurate test kit. I use the red sea algae management pro kit myself, it gets the job done but opinion vary. You can search in the forum for "best nitrate/phospate" test kits to decide which one is right for you.

2) to safely raise the no3/po4 levels, i would try in this order: 1)feed more, if that doesn't work after a few weeks, then 2) add fish, but only if your tank has the room for it. If that doesn't work, then 3) dose them with products like neophos or neonitrate. Thru out the process keep an eye out on algae growth. Its possible that algae will explode and quickly absorb any no3 po4. If that's the case then consider adding additional cuc/grazers + increase frequency of manual removal.

No3/po4 doesn't discriminate where its going - where its algaes or corals. This is why it can sometimes be tricky trying to balance nutrient level vs algae control, esp in immature tanks.

 

[tomderly]

This is what I would do

1) get a better more accurate test kit. I use the red sea algae management pro kit myself, it gets the job done but opinion vary. You can search in the forum for "best nitrate/phospate" test kits to decide which one is right for you.

2) to safely raise the no3/po4 levels, i would try in this order: 1)feed more, if that doesn't work after a few weeks, then 2) add fish, but only if your tank has the room for it. If that doesn't work, then 3) dose them with products like neophos or neonitrate. Thru out the process keep an eye out on algae growth. Its possible that algae will explode and quickly absorb any no3 po4. If that's the case then consider adding additional cuc/grazers + increase frequency of manual removal.

No3/po4 doesn't discriminate where its going - where its algaes or corals. This is why it can sometimes be tricky trying to balance nutrient level vs algae control, esp in immature tanks.

Perfect, I will try exactly that, Thank you

 

[tomderly]

This is what I would do

1) get a better more accurate test kit. I use the red sea algae management pro kit myself, it gets the job done but opinion vary. You can search in the forum for "best nitrate/phospate" test kits to decide which one is right for you.

2) to safely raise the no3/po4 levels, i would try in this order: 1)feed more, if that doesn't work after a few weeks, then 2) add fish, but only if your tank has the room for it. If that doesn't work, then 3) dose them with products like neophos or neonitrate. Thru out the process keep an eye out on algae growth. Its possible that algae will explode and quickly absorb any no3 po4. If that's the case then consider adding additional cuc/grazers + increase frequency of manual removal.

No3/po4 doesn't discriminate where its going - where its algaes or corals. This is why it can sometimes be tricky trying to balance nutrient level vs algae control, esp in immature tanks.

Just as a precautionary question, what would you suggest to do if my nitrates start heading into the 30s again after I start ramping up feeding etc.?

 

[Dkmoo]

Just as a precautionary question, what would you suggest to do if my nitrates start heading into the 30s again after I start ramping up feeding

Ramp up slowly. Pause if you see it raising to fast. Its a delicate balance.

A lot will depend on the specific consumption rate of your tank, and that's something you will get the hang of thru frequent testing and generally more experience.