Dying Tang

kkoranda · Oct 6, 2016

Hey everyone,

I got a Bristletooth Tomini from a sale at my LFS 3 days ago and he's looking very bad today. He didn't look great when I got him, a bit beat up looking (thought he'd been stung by some coral), but he was grazing and seemed active and alert. He hasn't eaten much since I got him home and this morning when I turned off the pumps to feed he just laid down in place and didn't move.

I'm 99% sure he's not going to make it but I still want to ID whatever is wrong with him. I didn't QT (dumb, I already know) so I want to make sure I know what this is in case it affects my other fish. I'll definitely treat this guy, if possible, but I don't have much hope for him.

It doesn't look like ich to me, nor does it look like velvet or any other common pathogen I'm aware of, but I'm not very experienced in identifying these things. He's got a bunch of flat white spots near his tail and what looks like skin erosion on the bottom of his head. Additionally, his gills seem to be very red.

He's lethargic, laying down and not swimming, and is gasping. I have him in a container with an air stone right now.

Photo album is here and any help is really, really appreciated!

Tank parameters are:
- Salinity: 1.026
- Ammonia: 0 ppm
- Nitrite: 0 ppm
- Nitrate: ~0 ppm
- pH: 7.7-8.1
- Alk: 8.96 dKH

Joey waid · Oct 6, 2016

I have had 8 fish die in the past 8 days. Some of the dead ones look brand new and the others look white finned and cloudy eyed. First I thought it was electrical, but now I'm swinging the other way. I have one fish in the hospital with meds and seems to be more alert. I know this does not help you, but I don't know what's going on with mine either. Sorry...

jsker · Oct 6, 2016

I would try metroplex in the frozen mixed with seachem focus. If you can get some garlic extract and also put it in the mix it might eat. Also in the mix add some vitamin m to try to boost the immune system. This will help the rest of the tank also.
To diginose it, I work be guessing but it look like ich caused by stress.

I am calling in the #reefsquad for help to get you the best response

Empress · Oct 6, 2016

kkoranda said:
Hey everyone,

I got a Bristletooth Tomini from a sale at my LFS 3 days ago and he's looking very bad today. He didn't look great when I got him, a bit beat up looking (thought he'd been stung by some coral), but he was grazing and seemed active and alert. He hasn't eaten much since I got him home and this morning when I turned off the pumps to feed he just laid down in place and didn't move.

I'm 99% sure he's not going to make it but I still want to ID whatever is wrong with him. I didn't QT (dumb, I already know) so I want to make sure I know what this is in case it affects my other fish. I'll definitely treat this guy, if possible, but I don't have much hope for him.

It doesn't look like ich to me, nor does it look like velvet or any other common pathogen I'm aware of, but I'm not very experienced in identifying these things. He's got a bunch of flat white spots near his tail and what looks like skin erosion on the bottom of his head. Additionally, his gills seem to be very red.

He's lethargic, laying down and not swimming, and is gasping. I have him in a container with an air stone right now.

Photo album is here and any help is really, really appreciated!

Tank parameters are:
- Salinity: 1.026
- Ammonia: 0 ppm
- Nitrite: 0 ppm
- Nitrate: ~0 ppm
- pH: 7.7-8.1
- Alk: 8.96 dKH

Has he stopped eating since you noticed this?

kkoranda · Oct 6, 2016

@Joey waid - I'm sorry to hear that, I really hope you figure out what's going on! It's hard losing pets that you put so much time and energy into caring for. I've only had this fish for 3 days and I feel awful that he's dying.

@jsker - Much appreciated. It definitely looks more like ich than anything else, but the spots are not raised whatsoever. They look more like a film or like skin erosion. I appreciate the help a lot.

@Empress - He was grazing on algae from the glass and my rocks on Sunday and Monday, but not today. He is dying - laying down and gasping.

He wasn't eating any of the pellets, meaty foods, or the sea veggies I was offering at any point over the last two days. He is skittish and would hide every time I took the cover off the tank. I tried feeding in the dark and he still wouldn't eat, but I've read that it's relatively normal for small Tomini tangs to forego eating for several days while they get adjusted to the new tank so initially I wasn't too worried.

jsker · Oct 6, 2016

You should get some other opioins in here from others on the #reefquad

Sabellafella · Oct 6, 2016

Poor little fella =( but it looks pretty severe. Doesnt look like theres any ich or velvet, bit his gills are red? Maybe flukes, he has white spots on him. Looks to be either something was biting him, but could be a bad bacteria. I only know of the standard qt practices from experience, but yea maybe look into formalin, antibiotics, melafix, feedings, stuff like that

Brew12 · Oct 6, 2016

Fresh water dip?

Then again, it might be too stressful at this point...

melypr1985 · Oct 6, 2016

Hi there! Welcome to R2R! I'm very sorry about your tang. That looks like it could be flukes. I'm thinking it's gotten infected though. To confirm flukes you would want to do a Freshwater dip. here's how

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes & "Black Ich", Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.

Now that may be too stressful on him in his current state, so you may just go straight to treating the display with prazipro. You can certainly feed him an antibiotic in the food. I'd go with Kanaplex combined with Focus in the food. If it starts getting worse, turning red or spreading, then we would want to move him to QT and treat the water with kanaplex instead.

kkoranda · Oct 6, 2016

@Sabellafella - I know, he looks really awful. I considered euthanizing him but he's active enough that I don't want to totally give up. I'm going to try a FW dip and if there are no signs of flukes then I'll consider an antibacterial treatment - I only have Furan-2 on hand but if it is bacterial then that should definitely help.

@Brew12 - I appreciate the consideration. I'm going to try a fresh water dip.

@melypr1985 - Thanks for the detailed instructions! I initially thought it might be flukes because of the red gills but I didn't realize that the flukes could also be causing the cloudy patches on his skin. I'll give a fresh water dip a shot.

kkoranda · Oct 6, 2016

Well, unfortunately it looks like he didn't make it. A few hours ago I had moved him back to a net in my sump and when I went to lift the net to do the dip he shuddered a few times and died. Poor guy.

I'm going forward with the dip anyway to see whether flukes were indeed the culprit.

I really appreciate all of your help and the fact that you wonderful people care about a little fish so much!

I'll update this with whatever I find.

Brew12 · Oct 6, 2016

kkoranda said:
Well, unfortunately it looks like he didn't make it. A few hours ago I had moved him back to a net in my sump and when I went to lift the net to do the dip he shuddered a few times and died. Poor guy.

I'm going forward with the dip anyway to see whether flukes were indeed the culprit.

I really appreciate all of your help and the fact that you wonderful people care about a little fish so much!

I'll update this with whatever I find.

sorry!

Jose H · Oct 6, 2016

I recently lost a Naso tang. I treated it in a QT with prazipro. But now should I dose my DT with some prazipro just to make sure that other fish don't get infected?

melypr1985 · Oct 6, 2016

Jose H said:
I recently lost a Naso tang. I treated it in a QT with prazipro. But now should I dose my DT with some prazipro just to make sure that other fish don't get infected?

If he had flukes and was in your display, then it's a good bet the others have it as well. You might try a freshwater dip as well, to confirm the presence of flukes first.

Joey waid · Oct 6, 2016

Sorry, it sux!!

kkoranda · Oct 6, 2016

Found the culprits during the FW dip. There were 8 or 9 that came out of the tang's body after a minute or two. They look like flatworms. The FW dip killed them and I should have done it much sooner, I may have been able to save the tang.

Photos are here and at the bottom of the post. Can someone positively identify these, are they flukes? They look pretty similar to some photos of flukes but not identical. I spent some time taking some decent macro photos of the parasites. They're about 2-2.5 mm in length, flat, white, and transparent. They're visible to the naked eye. Any ideas???

Jose H · Oct 6, 2016

I'm really not sure

melypr1985 said:
If he had flukes and was in your display, then it's a good bet the others have it as well. You might try a freshwater dip as well, to confirm the presence of flukes first.

if it were flukes. How long would you think the parasite would servive in the fish out of water. I just lost the Naso this morning. But I should've done what kkoranda did and still have done the FW dip even after the fish died

kkoranda · Oct 6, 2016

After looking at further photos I am almost 100% certain these are flukes (monogenetic trematodes).

I didn't realize there were so many different species of fluke - according to AA there are over 1500.

These photos are from publications about Neobenedenia melleni, a fluke. They look very, very similar to the parasites that came off the tang.