TaylorPilot
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It isn't going anywhere...just these companies being bought up are...eventually...
Ecotech joins BRS as a sister company..
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TaylorPilot
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Or should I say...these companies as we know them...
That’s not funny. It actually is — the US economy. Your opinion might be that it is contracting, which it did in 2020, but opinion is not reality.
It is, in fact, proving to be an unequal recovery, and there are certain factors that keep it from recovering more quickly for sure. But it is not continually retracting since April 2020.
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My wife is retiring next month so we had a long talk with our investment advisor last week.
He doesn't agree with you. Go argue with him. What I see every day when I go out doesn't agree with you either though.
Go visit your local car lot. Visit all of them. Completely empty. Just one example.
If you look at the economic data, the gdp has increased and we’re at pre-covid levels of increase. Long-term like I said it’s still slow, unequal, and uncertain — things like Delta, vaccine hesitancy, shipping/supply chain trouble keeping up w/demand. Perhaps your adviser is helping you to manage that uncertainty by being more bearish, which makes a lot of sense.
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flourishofmediocrity
Active Member
From I have seen in this thread venture capital has been portrayed like this:
VC makes money by investing in a company just so they can cut the workforce to make said company more attractive to other larger companies to sell it to.
Now, I'm a computer guy. Monitoring and automation are my areas of expertise, not business or economics. However, it did not take me long to find that saying the above narrative is the ONLY way venture capital money works is demonstrably false. I think this aspect of the conversation has been one-sided and I wanted to give the people in the same boat as me the other side of the story that has not been represented.
Venture capital firms can also recoup their investment thru a capital-backed IPO which is where the privately funded company goes public and the venture capital firm is paid back their investment with the proceeds from the sale of the publicly traded shares.
I also saw some comments about Bertram's site and the companies they've invested in. The comments seemed to infer that all the companies marked "exited" were flushed down the toilet for profits. I also just found out thru some rudimentary searching that venture capital is a short term investment and they all have exit strategies.
Again, I have no idea what percentage of venture capital investments are just to gut and sell the company, and what percentage are recouped via IPO, I just wanted to debunk the argument that it only works the one way.
I also just want to point that it doesn't take much effort to find a LOT of companies that get venture capital funding and are doing just fine, notably SpaceX and DoorDash just to name a couple.
news.crunchbase.com
decide for yourself.
VC makes money by investing in a company just so they can cut the workforce to make said company more attractive to other larger companies to sell it to.
Now, I'm a computer guy. Monitoring and automation are my areas of expertise, not business or economics. However, it did not take me long to find that saying the above narrative is the ONLY way venture capital money works is demonstrably false. I think this aspect of the conversation has been one-sided and I wanted to give the people in the same boat as me the other side of the story that has not been represented.
Venture capital firms can also recoup their investment thru a capital-backed IPO which is where the privately funded company goes public and the venture capital firm is paid back their investment with the proceeds from the sale of the publicly traded shares.
I also saw some comments about Bertram's site and the companies they've invested in. The comments seemed to infer that all the companies marked "exited" were flushed down the toilet for profits. I also just found out thru some rudimentary searching that venture capital is a short term investment and they all have exit strategies.
Again, I have no idea what percentage of venture capital investments are just to gut and sell the company, and what percentage are recouped via IPO, I just wanted to debunk the argument that it only works the one way.
I also just want to point that it doesn't take much effort to find a LOT of companies that get venture capital funding and are doing just fine, notably SpaceX and DoorDash just to name a couple.
The Most Recent Startup Investments Over $250 Million In 2019
Profiling each of the largest VC rounds raised in 2019.
news.crunchbase.com
decide for yourself.
I think there has been vast misunderstanding of what a lot of folks have been saying here. I don't think anyone said firms buy firms JUST TO cut them up, etc -- more like this is more than often part of the process of streamlining and making companies more profitable.From I have seen in this thread venture capital has been portrayed like this:
VC makes money by investing in a company just so they can cut the workforce to make said company more attractive to other larger companies to sell it to.
Now, I'm a computer guy. Monitoring and automation are my areas of expertise, not business or economics. However, it did not take me long to find that saying the above narrative is the ONLY way venture capital money works is demonstrably false. I think this aspect of the conversation has been one-sided and I wanted to give the people in the same boat as me the other side of the story that has not been represented.
Venture capital firms can also recoup their investment thru a capital-backed IPO which is where the privately funded company goes public and the venture capital firm is paid back their investment with the proceeds from the sale of the publicly traded shares.
I also saw some comments about Bertram's site and the companies they've invested in. The comments seemed to infer that all the companies marked "exited" were flushed down the toilet for profits. I also just found out thru some rudimentary searching that venture capital is a short term investment and they all have exit strategies.
Again, I have no idea what percentage of venture capital investments are just to gut and sell the company, and what percentage are recouped via IPO, I just wanted to debunk the argument that it only works the one way.
I also just want to point that it doesn't take much effort to find a LOT of companies that get venture capital funding and are doing just fine, notably SpaceX and DoorDash just to name a couple.
The Most Recent Startup Investments Over $250 Million In 2019
Profiling each of the largest VC rounds raised in 2019.
decide for yourself.
There is also a difference between VC and private equity like Bertram. Sometimes the changes occur right away, other times it could be years before those kinds of drastic changes happen, and things continue to operate as normal in the interim. The goal of VC is to get to the IPO.
I got the initial sense BRS may have wanted the capital to continue to grow and meet customer demand, which is very hard to do without help. But the immediate acquisitions threw me, and fit the mold of private equity building a portfolio. I do think that at some point in the future (near or distant) there will be mergers, which only makes sense -- could be companies, product lines, who knows. Again, this could happen quickly, or not for years. And whether they will be good or bad is really in the eye of the beholder.
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GarrettT
Well-Known Member
Once I had kids I had to step out of the hobby to help support a family. 5 years later, I am now getting back in it. I am amazed at just how much it cost to be in this hobby now. The cost have literally doubled and tripled. Interesting to come in mid transition and see companies buying other companies. This hobby is going in the wrong direction. Some may not see it as it has been gradual for them, but for someone who stepped out of it for awhile, the impact is obvious. Sad to see really..
I always try to support smaller companies as much as I can (Lifereef, Octo-Lids, Avaste Marine, etc.)
I always try to support smaller companies as much as I can (Lifereef, Octo-Lids, Avaste Marine, etc.)
rtparty
2500 Club Member
This hobby started going backwards a long time ago. This isn't a recent thing IMO. You can almost pin it down to 2 major events: LEDs becoming mainstream and dry rock. Throw in social media and you have the trifecta of bad news for this hobby.
flourishofmediocrity
Active Member
The sentiments expressed in this thread have not been mis-construed in any way, and the facts of how investments by VC (which you yourself have spoken to several times) have not been accurately represented, and I simply wanted to show the additional facts that have been excluded from this conversation.
You seem like a nice person, and you are of course entitled to your opinion. You are also free to talk about your knowledge and experience. I do not however think you should be attempting to suggest anyone else's level of expertise or knowledge by saying things like someone has a "vast misunderstanding" or calling them "naive" [sic]. These types of comments are a passive aggressive way of attempting to invalidate my opinion by insinuating that I don't know as much as you. That may or may not be true, but I am asking as civilly as possible that you not do that and respect other's opinions. My opinion on this is just as valid as anyone else's and its OK if we don't agree.
Oh my, that is not at all what I'm doing. Please do not think that I am being passive aggressive, or attempting to invalidate your opinion at all -- please do not put that on me. I was trying to explain, but that seems to have been misconstrued. VC is different -- Bertram is not VC. I feel that I am saying facts that are being argued with and when I try to explain how or why they are facts, I get responded to like this. I'm at a loss at this point, so I'm out. But please know I am far from passive aggressive, and I welcome your opinion -- but that doesn't mean you can use your opinion against facts or treat me as though I am disrespectful.
Here's hoping these mergers are a catalyst for a golden-age of reefkeepping!
@Bulk Reef Supply - please develop a HOB system that scales with size of tank & bioload...also please put all the devices / brands into a single ecosystem for monitoring / control through an app.
@Bulk Reef Supply - please develop a HOB system that scales with size of tank & bioload...also please put all the devices / brands into a single ecosystem for monitoring / control through an app.
WOW!
I'm keeping an open mind on all this. I can't blame BRS for going into this. They're a business and most businesses are in it to grow rather than just survive or be content with their piece of the pie.
One other thing to consider is why these companies agreed to sell. Was it just such a great deal they couldn't resist or could it be even with the huge influx of new reefers due to covid, that these companies were riding the hairy edge and could have otherwise been out of business soon when things go back to normal? Could they have survived? Maybe BRS did us all a huge favor?
I dunno, trying to keep an open mind...
One other thing to consider is why these companies agreed to sell. Was it just such a great deal they couldn't resist or could it be even with the huge influx of new reefers due to covid, that these companies were riding the hairy edge and could have otherwise been out of business soon when things go back to normal? Could they have survived? Maybe BRS did us all a huge favor?
I dunno, trying to keep an open mind...
BRS doesn't own Ecotech per se, Bertram Capital, an investment firm, has become a part owner. Whether this is good or bad remains to be seen, but the philosophy of BC is to help middle volume businesses reach their full potential thru acquisition, technology investments, management advice, and portfolio diversity. The larger issue would be if prices raised or product reliability went down. I doubt Ecotech took their decision lightly, and as a consumer more financial resources and technologies investment =wider product offerings and choice for the consumer. My main concern is the lack of clear competition at this point other than with Amazon, which, let's face it - I'm fine if Amazon has to actually try to compete in a market instead of bulldozing everything. I'm also concerned with this a potential further nail in the coffin for the LFS. We'll see how this shakes out.
What I will say is this makes it harder for me to trust their product reviews. A bit difficult to ignore that they own the production behind most of what they sell. However, Ecotech and Neptune have a pretty solid track record of customer satisfaction and results, whether or not we use them. I'm hopeful this is all long term a good thing for the hobbyist.
What I will say is this makes it harder for me to trust their product reviews. A bit difficult to ignore that they own the production behind most of what they sell. However, Ecotech and Neptune have a pretty solid track record of customer satisfaction and results, whether or not we use them. I'm hopeful this is all long term a good thing for the hobbyist.
flourishofmediocrity
Active Member
This is a rational take on the situation
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