Element levels when using Chaetogro?

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’m thinking of developing some mixed diy trace/minor/major element recipes for different purposes using readily available chemicals.

One I have in mind is for growing macroalgae and turf algae. Let’s call this recipe R1. Lol

I was thinking to base it off of published analyses of macroalgae and/or turf algae. R1 won’t include N and P, but a related recipe will be an N and P supplement to use at a fixed ratio to R1 to provide much of what such algae need from seawater. A macroalgae grow out tank might use both, while a refugium or ats might only use R1 or R1 plus one of the N and P, depending on tank values of N and P.

In any case, in preparation for such an endeavor, I’m looking to see if anyone has icp data on tank values when using commercial chaetogro by Brightwell as the primary trace element additive, and who grows a significant amount of macroalgae, or turf algae.

Reason being, If there’s a general trend toward chaetogro having excessive or deficient levels of its listed components, I could also take that into account. I know it will be impossible in any single case to distinguish use by a refugium or ats vs everything else in the display, so I’m looking for general trends.

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[Subsea]

Randy,
I grow macro algae commercially. At present, Gracilaria Hayi is a mainstay.

I have some older analysis of Gracilaria Parvispora from a regional agriculture labaratory and am receiving 1 lb of G. Parvispora (Red Ogo/Tang Heaven Red) shipment this week from IPSF.

Happy to be involved.

 

[Garf]

Randy,
I grow macro algae commercially. At present, Gracilaria Hayi is a mainstay.

I have some older analysis of Gracilaria Parvispora from a regional agriculture labaratory and am receiving 1 lb of G. Parvispora (Red Ogo/Tang Heaven Red) shipment this week from IPSF.

Happy to be involved.

Is Guillards formula not sufficient? There's a full list on the web on how to make that.

 

[Subsea]

Is Guillards formula not sufficient? There's a full list on the web on how to make that.

While I have used F2 for phytoplankton, I prefer using liquid kelp concentrate for seaweed. Also, fast growing macro algae biomass uses double the N of phytoplankton. For that, I dose ammonia.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Is Guillards formula not sufficient? There's a full list on the web on how to make that.

It lacks iodine, and the ratios were designed for diatoms. I’m not sure those ratios are best for typical macroalgae, although it may be, and it’s a good point to compare it to the macro compositions.

 

[Garf]

It lacks iodine

I guess adding lugols won't be recommendation.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Well I can definitely tell you that it spiked my iodine. Here’s a ICP result after using it for a few months: https://aquaforestlab.com/results/C5IyPxec42734

For reference sake here’s the closest test I did before I started chaetogrow: https://aquaforestlab.com/account/samples/37967

Oh and no, I didn’t dose anything else with iodine in it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Well I can definitely tell you that it spiked my iodine. Here’s a ICP result after using it for a few months: https://aquaforestlab.com/results/C5IyPxec42734

For reference sake here’s the closest test I did before I started chaetogrow: https://aquaforestlab.com/account/samples/37967

Oh and no, I didn’t dose anything else with iodine in it.

Perfect, thanks. Unfortunately, iodine seems to be the one main component that Brightwell doesn’t give a concentration for in the description I saw. lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, the first link works but the second needs a password.

 

[Garf]

Well I can definitely tell you that it spiked my iodine. Here’s a ICP result after using it for a few months: https://aquaforestlab.com/results/C5IyPxec42734

For reference sake here’s the closest test I did before I started chaetogrow: https://aquaforestlab.com/account/samples/37967

Oh and no, I didn’t dose anything else with iodine in it.

I'm getting a login screen for your second link. Interesting that cheatogrow appeared to elevate iodine so much. How much algae were you actually growing, it's very watery, lol.

 

[rishma]

Randy,
I grow macro algae commercially. At present, Gracilaria Hayi is a mainstay.

I have some older analysis of Gracilaria Parvispora from a regional agriculture labaratory and am receiving 1 lb of G. Parvispora (Red Ogo/Tang Heaven Red) shipment this week from IPSF.

Happy to be involved.

Grow it commercially? For food or hobby if you don’t mind me asking. Always been fascinated with macros.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Perfect, thanks. Unfortunately, iodine seems to be the one main component that Brightwell doesn’t give a concentration for in the description I saw. lol

Yeah and it’s not even listed under elements that are added if I remember correctly. It’s in the fine print haha

Perhaps you can correct me if I’m wrong but I believe ozone interacts with potassium iodide, which is in chaetogro, to release the iodine making it available to a larger extent.
If that’s the case perhaps that could explain the spike…if I remember correctly that was at least my thinking at the time this happened.

FWIW, the first link works but the second needs a password.

I'm getting a login screen for your second link. Interesting that cheatogrow appeared to elevate iodine so much. How much algae were you actually growing, it's very watery, lol.

A decent amount I would say. Strange. Here’s a new link https://aquaforestlab.com/results/Jht314Na37967

 

[VintageReefer]

 

[Subsea]

Grow it commercially? For food or hobby if you don’t mind me asking. Always been fascinated with macros.

I grow Red Ogo for food and sell it to LFS. It’s been a hobby & passion for > 50 years. I am a retired subsea engineer.

Initially, tried it as a retirement business in a 20’ by 40’ greenhouse.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The web site lists it

http://www.brightwellaquatics.com/products/chaeto-gro.php

Sources of Nutrients​

Potassium sulfate, Calcium chloride, Magnesium sulfate, Potassium iodide, Iron EDTA, Zinc sulfate, Manganese chloride, Sodium tetraborate, Cobalt chloride, Sodium molybdate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Iodide can react with ozone but that does not change its detection by icp.

From an article of mine:

The same reactive pathways that lead hypobromous acid to bromate will take hypoiodous acid to iodate.
In the ocean, iodine's predominate form is iodate (IO3-) with a smaller but significant fraction of iodide (I-). These two forms' bioavailability to macroalgae and other organisms varies from species to species, but iodide is often more bioavailable than iodate. Regardless, the use of ozone will likely skew the fraction of total iodine toward iodate and away from iodide. That may or may not be important for reef aquarists, because the importance of iodine's availability from the water column to organisms kept in reef aquaria is undemonstrated, but it may have strong implications if test kits are used detect some species and not others.

This concern was studied by one group in the Smithsonian National Zoological Park's Department of Animal Health.11 It claimed that fish need iodide in the water column in the form of iodide to make the hormone thyroxine. Regardless of whether that is true or not (that is, whether fish need iodine in the water or whether they can get it from food), they showed that seawater's ozonation to an ORP of 400 mV (equivalent, they claim, to the level attained by skimmer driven use of ozone) reduced the iodide concentration by more than half. Ozonation also decreased the concentration of organoiodine compounds, and raised iodate levels. In the aquarium itself, iodide and organoiodine compounds were not detectable when using ozone. They go on to suggest that iodide supplements might be beneficial in cases when ozone is used. Therefore the conclusion that "iodine is an unnecessary additive for reef aquaria," when that conclusion is based on success in aquaria not using ozone, may not extend to aquaria that heavily employ ozone.

 

[VintageReefer]

The web site lists it

http://www.brightwellaquatics.com/products/chaeto-gro.php

Sources of Nutrients​

Potassium sulfate, Calcium chloride, Magnesium sulfate, Potassium iodide, Iron EDTA, Zinc sulfate, Manganese chloride, Sodium tetraborate, Cobalt chloride, Sodium molybdate.

My bottle that I just bought 8 days ago does not list potassium iodide

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My bottle that I just bought 8 days ago does not list potassium iodide

Higher up on the bottle than your picture, does it give the overview section? On the web site, that section says 13 essential elements even though the list below only shows 12, perhaps leaving iodine as the third.

 

[dangles]

I’m thinking of developing some mixed diy trace/minor/major element recipes for different purposes using readily available chemicals.

One I have in mind is for growing macroalgae and turf algae. Let’s call this recipe R1. Lol

I was thinking to base it off of published analyses of macroalgae and/or turf algae. R1 won’t include N and P, but a related recipe will be an N and P supplement to use at a fixed ratio to R1 to provide much of what such algae need from seawater. A macroalgae grow out tank might use both, while a refugium or ats might only use R1 or R1 plus one of the N and P, depending on tank values of N and P.

In any case, in preparation for such an endeavor, I’m looking to see if anyone has icp data on tank values when using commercial chaetogro by Brightwell as the primary trace element additive, and who grows a significant amount of macroalgae, or turf algae.

Reason being, If there’s a general trend toward chaetogro having excessive or deficient levels of its listed components, I could also take that into account. I know it will be impossible in any single case to distinguish use by a refugium or ats vs everything else in the display, so I’m looking for general trends.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Just sent out an ICP this past week. I use ChaetoGrow exclusively for supplementation (unless you’re also talking about kalk, but I don’t believe that would be relevant in this case?).

I grow Pom Pom gracilaria really well in my fuge. Happy to share my results when they come in.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Just sent out an ICP this past week. I use ChaetoGrow exclusively for supplementation (unless you’re also talking about kalk, but I don’t believe that would be relevant in this case?).

I grow Pom Pom gracilaria really well in my fuge. Happy to share my results when they come in.

That would be great, thx!