Elimi NP tropic marin
- Thread starter cdemoss01
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It didn't work when I tried it but bacto balance didn't either. I'm having my doubts about Plus NP also since I'm still testing zero after dosing the max amount for several weeks. I love AFR but have a hunch some of the other product behave differently in different tanks. I have read of it working for others so I dunno.
PS I have multiple tanks I haven't been trying all the products on the same tank.
PS I have multiple tanks I haven't been trying all the products on the same tank.
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Are you talking about Elimi NP burning your nose?
azreefer93
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Works for me but I found that it pull down Nitratre faster than Phos, so I ended up dosing Nitratre during that time. I used to dose 0.5ml daily to my 85 gallon tank, start seeing nutrients comes down after 2 weeks, Phos from 0.2 to 0.12. IMO good products, according to my understand, it basically feed bacteria, then bacteria uptake Nitratre and Phos, then bacteria got consumed by corals or exported via skimmer. So it really depends on your corals mass and heavy export. Hope that help!
azreefer93
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One thing I noticed is that if you monitor PH closely, you'll see a lower PH on dosing day. I suspect it's from increased bacterial activity and respiration as their population ramps up...
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Have you tried just a diy organic, such as vinegar or vodka? Its not really clear that any commercial organic product can do better, IMO.
jackintheboxfish
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My experience with NP Bacto Balance (not Elimi NP but pretty similar) is that it pulls down nutrients slower/gentler than the simple organics like vinegar.
It also seem to consume more phosphate for me. Originally started dosing hoping Nitrate would go down and had to dose phosphate to keep it from bottoming out.
The official guidelines is use Elimi NP/NP Bacto/Plus NP based on the phosphate level (<0.03/0.03-0.1/>0.1)
It also seem to consume more phosphate for me. Originally started dosing hoping Nitrate would go down and had to dose phosphate to keep it from bottoming out.
The official guidelines is use Elimi NP/NP Bacto/Plus NP based on the phosphate level (<0.03/0.03-0.1/>0.1)
jackintheboxfish
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Hey @Randy Holmes-Farley , I respect your authority with reefing and chemistry in general, but with this I have to say i don’t completely agree.
My experience of dosing vinegar and NP Bacto was pretty different. I used small amounts based on Miami Reef’s recipe for vinegar, and small amounts for NP Bacto. Vinegar brought down nutrients much quicker. I also pretty quickly saw Dino and cyano appearing with vinegar. With NP Bacto I haven’t seen either.
I might be wrong but vinegar, vodka, sugar are simple sugars that can be easily consumed by copiotrophic bacteria which multiply quickly and some of them can be harmful. Those bacteria can’t break down longer polymers which the oligotrophic bacteria can. They are usually slower to produce and so brings down nutrients slower. AFAIK there are no known oligotropic bacteria that’s harmful for reef tank livestock.
But again this is just my experience and the theory is more or less connecting the dots there so could be pretty off :)
I think I remember seeing a video where the late Lou Ekus talked about these products working differently in different tanks. I want to say it to has do with different bacteria levels in some systems but TBH it was over my head. Maybe @Hans-Werner can comment on why the products seem to yield such different results between tanks?
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Randy Holmes-Farley
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While vodka and vinegar are not sugars, it may well be true that bacteria use it faster. I’m not sure how it is an inherent benefit to use an organic that degrades more slowly, but still by bacteria.
Can’t you just dose it more slowly and attain the same rate of bacterial growth and N and P consumption?
If, in fact, cyano cannot use the organic in the commercial products, that is a benefit. But without knowing exactly what is in the products, that is hard to know with certainty.
Certainly, if folks get cyano problems with both vodka and
Vinegar tried separately, then I certainly agree that using a commercial product and seeing if there is a difference is a good plan.
FWIW, I got cyano problems trying vodka, but when I switched to vinegar, I did not.
I started the dose per instructions, got no results, doubled it, got some noticeable reduction (mostly in nitrates) then added just a bit more, and...PERFECT. So the moral here is that you have to play around with it a bit to get it just right.
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jackintheboxfish
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I misspoke about sugars. You are right vinegar and vodka are not. They are simpler organics that are easily consumed.
I think the major difference I’m arguing for is not solved by dosing less or slower. It’s more of the effect from the types of bacteria simple vs long chain polymers would favor. Copiotrophic bacteria cannot break down the longer chain polymers, but when the simple carbon is present they multiply quickly. I‘m not familiar with the exact species, but I know many copiotrophic bacterias are harmful.
But yeah I think I also agree with you with regard to not knowing what’s in the bottle and so at most we can observe a correlation but cant conclude a causation. Even the scientific world knows very little about the microbiome systems and how things take place.
I personally find the theory of carbon dosing source difference favors different types of bacteria a plausible theory. And so I do feel like these commercial products (at least these TM ones) are better, which was why I disagreed
