Emergency ammonia spike help

[prestonrabe]

Okay, so I have (had) a 150 stocked with the following:
2” yellow tang
2” hippo yang
6” gem tang
3” Kole tang
2” clown tang
6 clownfish
5 green chromis
4” foxface
Royal gramma
Mandarin goby

And about 15-20 different types of coral

I had fed corals and fed heavily the day before yesterday so I tested the tank yesterday and the ammonia was .23 so I did a small water change and retested and it was at zero. We left the house while we had someone clean it and when we came back all the fish were on their side breathing heavy and the first thing I did was test water. The ammonia was at a 4.0. I immediately did a 75% water change and all fish but the gem, yellow, goby, 4 clowns and the chromis survived. This morning I wake up to all the corals expelling zooxanthelle and shriveled up. All fish are fine and then at around 1:30 today all fish are back breathing heavy. I test the water and ammonia is at .28. I treated with prime because my water isn’t ready enough to do water change. (my RODI is kinda slow and I put it to refill around 8am.)

Come to find out a jug of bleach was spilled in the room the tank was in. Could the large amount of bleach in the air cause the tank to spike like this?

It’s currently 3pm and all my fish are barely hanging on and I’m fully expecting to lose everything today corals included.

Is there anything I could do or should I just hang it up?


Thanks in advance

 

[Nano_Man]

Have you stocked any new fish

How old is your tank
Stop feeding and do water change to reduce stress on fish
Have you got any bottle bac
Your good bacteria need too catch up to the amount of waste your fish are producing

 

[Kzang]

I'd just keep adding prime. As long as you add it everyday, you'll be fine if its the ammonia. I had to put 11 fish in a 40g breeder (my 150g was separating), with 3 large tangs in it, and never had an issue with ammonia or nitrate toxicity. I kept them in that 40g breeder for a month feeding with all my corals. Only a few corals die probably due to flow.

Prime is way better to treat ammonia (temporarily) than water changes. Have you tested your water, and make sure its not coming from your water source?

edit: btw that is waaaaaay too much bioload in my opinion for a 150g, which may be way ammonia is going up?

 

[prestonrabe]

Have you stocked any new fish
What age is your tank

Tank has been running for awhile now. I started adding fish at the end of December. Some of the fish were transplants from my old tank which I used the sand, Live rock and media from. I added a few fish at a time but never more than 2 at a time. Everything was going great until yesterday

 

[Nano_Man]

@kevgib67

 

[Kzang]

Tank has been running for awhile now. I started adding fish at the end of December. Some of the fish were transplants from my old tank which I used the sand, Live rock and media from. I added a few fish at a time but never more than 2 at a time. Everything was going great until yesterday

Wow, that is a **** ton of fish you added very quickly. The tangs are extremely extremely bioload heavy. A small tang, is equal to at least 3 fish. They constantly eat and poop. You should only have 1-2 small tangs in a 150g. Even with just 1 tang, plus other fish, your nutrient export should be super duper heavy.

 

[prestonrabe]

I'd just keep adding prime. As long as you add it everyday, you'll be fine if its the ammonia. I had to put 11 fish in a 40g breeder (my 150g was separating), with 3 large tangs in it, and never had an issue with ammonia or nitrate toxicity. I kept them in that 40g breeder for a month feeding with all my corals. Only a few corals die probably due to flow.

Prime is way better to treat ammonia (temporarily) than water changes. Have you tested your water, and make sure its not coming from your water source?

edit: btw that is waaaaaay too much bioload in my opinion for a 150g, which may be way ammonia is going up?

Yes, my Ro water is at 0 ammonia. I need to get more prime as I used it all. Unfortunately my nearest LFS is an hour away and by the time I get back the fish will likely be gone.

 

[prestonrabe]

Wow, that is a **** ton of fish you added very quickly. The tangs are extremely extremely bioload heavy. A small tang, is equal to at least 3 fish. They constantly eat and poop. You should only have 1-2 small tangs in a 150g. Even with just 1 tang, plus other fish, your nutrient export should be super duper heavy.

Yes I know. I was doing weekly water changes and managing my ammonia fine. It was at 0ppm yesterday before the spike to 4.0ppm in roughly 1.5 hours

 

[Kzang]

Yes, my Ro water is at 0 ammonia. I need to get more prime as I used it all. Unfortunately my nearest LFS is an hour away and by the time I get back the fish will likely be gone.

You need to look out for uronema since you have chromis as well. It can kill quickly. Usually has red sores. It can be internal as well, so you might not see the sore.

You have entirely too many fish. That clown tang you need a 250g tang minumum. You should just keep 1-2 small tangs like yellow, purple, kole, etc. You have too many clownfish. Most clownfish can't be together, unless its certain species or other limited instances. That gem tang needs a bigger tank too.

You added 19 fish to a 150g in less than a month, which 5 of those are tangs, even small tangs like 2 inches, can add a lot of ammonia to the tank. My best guess is 1: WAAAAAY overstocked. 2. Possible disease like uronema.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd just keep adding prime. As long as you add it everyday, you'll be fine if its the ammonia. I had to put 11 fish in a 40g breeder (my 150g was separating), with 3 large tangs in it, and never had an issue with ammonia or nitrate toxicity. I kept them in that 40g breeder for a month feeding with all my corals. Only a few corals die probably due to flow.

Prime is way better to treat ammonia (temporarily) than water changes. Have you tested your water, and make sure its not coming from your water source?

edit: btw that is waaaaaay too much bioload in my opinion for a 150g, which may be way ammonia is going up?

I do not think Prime is useful for ammonia in seawater and would not recommend using it or relying on it.

Does Prime actually "Detoxify" free ammonia, NH3?

This started when @Dan_P was looking at measuring NH3 with seneye and was curious about performance near zero NH3. I suggested trying Prime to artificially zero out the NH3 sensor, and the results were weird... so I checked with my seachem kit. Prime by Seachem is commonly used to treat tap...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[kevgib67]

I am so sorry for you, I can’t imagine watching this unfold. You’ve been given good advice. I would assume at this moment you just want to save what ever you can. I would be doing large and repeat water changes and just in case something found its way into your tank and is not measurable, I would throw in activated charcoal. Best of luck.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m not sure if the bleach caused the immediate issue, but it certainly might have.

 

[Kzang]

I do not think Prime is useful for ammonia in seawater and would not recommend using it or relying on it.

It totally works and is extremely useful. I kept 11 fish, 3 of which were tangs, in 40g breeder with no water changes, for a month, with no issue. No LR in there. just corals. I did lose a little coral, but that was a flow issue.

I also did used it when I added the fish back to the 150g with hardly any LR. I slowly lowered the daily dose until it was zero. No deaths.

 

[MnFish1]

I do not think Prime is useful for ammonia in seawater and would not recommend using it or relying on it.

Agree - and contrary to what some others have said - water changes will be much more efficient - but 'a small water change' is not enough. Additionally, since you added prime it will be difficult for you to see what the actual ammonia is.

As to the question of the bleach, if you can breathe in the room, it's UNLIKELY but I suppose not impossible that the bleach is causing an effect. This could also be a disease like velvet - which can quickly come on after stress - however, since your corals are also affected, its likely a toxic issue.

I would do a 50% water change (with salt mixed per the instructions - some require hours of mixing) - add a high quality activated carbon. Consider adding bottled bacteria.

The good news is - the prime SHOULD neutralize any potential chlorine from the bleach.

Hope this helps. I would make sure there is nothing 'dead' in the tank that can't be removed. Lastly - I would greatly increase your oxygenation. An ammonia of 0.28 is not an issue (unless it's free NH3) - and assuming your pH is normal.

 

[prestonrabe]

You need to look out for uronema since you have chromis as well. It can kill quickly. Usually has red sores. It can be internal as well, so you might not see the sore.

You have entirely too many fish. That clown tang you need a 250g tang minumum. You should just keep 1-2 small tangs like yellow, purple, kole, etc. You have too many clownfish. Most clownfish can't be together, unless its certain species or other limited instances. That gem tang needs a bigger tank too.

You added 19 fish to a 150g in less than a month, which 5 of those are tangs, even small tangs like 2 inches, can add a lot of ammonia to the tank. My best guess is 1: WAAAAAY overstocked. 2. Possible disease like uronema.

Well technically I have 1 fish now. Everything else but the gem has passed. And although I appreciate the response you’re scolding is doing literally nothing to help with the issue. How does a disease cause a giant ammonia spike in an hour and how does a tank spike that much that fast? Overstocked or not?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It totally works and is extremely useful. I kept 11 fish, 3 of which were tangs, in 40g breeder with no water changes, for a month, with no issue. No LR in there. just corals. I did lose a little coral, but that was a flow issue.

I also did used it when I added the fish back to the 150g with hardly any LR. I slowly lowered the daily dose until it was zero. No deaths.

Well, then we have a disagreement.

Read the thread where folks demonstrated chemically that it does not work, then we can debate whether your results are evidence of it working, as opposed to them surviving anyway.

Does Prime actually "Detoxify" free ammonia, NH3?

This started when @Dan_P was looking at measuring NH3 with seneye and was curious about performance near zero NH3. I suggested trying Prime to artificially zero out the NH3 sensor, and the results were weird... so I checked with my seachem kit. Prime by Seachem is commonly used to treat tap...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[prestonrabe]

I am so sorry for you, I can’t imagine watching this unfold. You’ve been given good advice. I would assume at this moment you just want to save what ever you can. I would be doing large and repeat water changes and just in case something found its way into your tank and is not measurable, I would throw in activated charcoal. Best of luck.

At this point everything still alive is barely alive. I’m trying to do water changes but it seems to be stressing them out quite a bit. I’ve done 3 large water changes in the last several hours. I’ve been buying water from the water mill because my RO can’t keep up. I appreciate the help!

 

[Kzang]

Well, then we have a disagreement.

Read the thread where folks demonstrated chemically that it does not work, then we can debate whether your results are evidence of it working, as opposed to them surviving anyway.

Does Prime actually "Detoxify" free ammonia, NH3?

This started when @Dan_P was looking at measuring NH3 with seneye and was curious about performance near zero NH3. I suggested trying Prime to artificially zero out the NH3 sensor, and the results were weird... so I checked with my seachem kit. Prime by Seachem is commonly used to treat tap...

www.reef2reef.com

Definitely disagree, and your knowledge is waaaaaaaaaaaaay above mine and pretty much everyone else for this stuff....but it did work. I would have lost all my fish at the time if it wasn't for prime in that 40g.

 

[prestonrabe]

Agree - and contrary to what some others have said - water changes will be much more efficient - but 'a small water change' is not enough. Additionally, since you added prime it will be difficult for you to see what the actual ammonia is.

As to the question of the bleach, if you can breathe in the room, it's UNLIKELY but I suppose not impossible that the bleach is causing an effect. This could also be a disease like velvet - which can quickly come on after stress - however, since your corals are also affected, its likely a toxic issue.

I would do a 50% water change (with salt mixed per the instructions - some require hours of mixing) - add a high quality activated carbon. Consider adding bottled bacteria.

The good news is - the prime SHOULD neutralize any potential chlorine from the bleach.

Hope this helps. I would make sure there is nothing 'dead' in the tank that can't be removed. Lastly - I would greatly increase your oxygenation. An ammonia of 0.28 is not an issue (unless it's free NH3) - and assuming your pH is normal.

I’ve done several large water changes but it’s not seeming to help. I’m not sure what this person did while cleaning the house. I checked the tank thoroughly and nothing was dead that I could find. I have a bunch of bubblers going right now to try and create more aeration. The bleach smell in the hall where the tank is was bad enough to give me a headache when I walked in.

 

[MnFish1]

Well technically I have 1 fish now. Everything else but the gem has passed. And although I appreciate the response you’re scolding is doing literally nothing to help with the issue. How does a disease cause a giant ammonia spike in an hour and how does a tank spike that much that fast? Overstocked or not?

Wow sorry to hear that. I did not see @kevgib67 's recommendations, agree completely. What kind of corals do y ou have that are doing poorly - it's sometimes possible that when stressed/dying for them to release toxins?