Emperor Angelfish Spots

[bonesreef]

Hello All,
I'm really needing help with an Emperor Angelfish I've had in QT for over 3 months.
When I received the fish it had both flukes & ick. These were easily treated as I've done in the past with Prazipro/Paraguard/Freshwater dips/& Frequent water changes.

Over the past month there has been raised spots which cycle every 7 days or so...on for 7...off for 7. I've never seen anything like this, and can't seem to treat it properly. Below are some picture of the spots on the fish...If you have suggestions on what they may be & how to teat I'd appreciate it.
Photos before an attempt to cure via Freshwater Dip:

During Freshwater dip:

This dip seemed to assist in breathing(which is slightly labored)..however it ultimately did nothing for the raised spots. The fish eats during this time.

Thanks again!

 

[melypr1985]

Wow. I'm sorry I can't help, but surely your detailed description and photos will help a lot! @Humblefish to the rescue!

 

[bonesreef]

Thanks
I also swapped out the pump and heater thinking it could have been a stray current(however was not the case)....There are now other fish in QT with the Emp and they are all doing fine/looks like its non-trasferable.

 

[miyags]

Looks like lymphocystis and ich? on for 7 off for 7 sounds like ich. reading your thread sounds like you did not use cupramine? Your QT tank could have ich in it?

 

[bonesreef]

miyags,
Thanks for your advice. I understand why you would think it could be ick, however I'm certain its not in this situation. I've treated with copper in the past, but with more sensitive wrasses & angels I prefer to use other methods.
I've run into lymphocystis in the past on a Juvi Queen Angel..however those were larger patches and went away as the fish matured. These specific spots on the Emperor Angel take on two distinct shapes (one looks like a santa clause hat, and the other looks like a baby polyp).
Not sure if that helps or adds to the confusion of what this might be...lol but thanks again!

 

[sc50964]

I ran into something similar with my emp, though not as wide spread. I think it has something to do with malnutrition n stressed.

 

[bonesreef]

Thanks sc50964!
Do you have any pictures of your Emp during the time it showed?
What do you suggest I should feed?
He eats selcon enriched PE Mysis, spectrum pellets, & nori sheets.

Being a QT tank, I try to keep lighting on a short cycle. Does anyone suspect this could be due to lack of exposure to enough lighting per 24hour period?

 

[scardall]

flukes??? https://www.google.com/search?q=sal...oTCPqCoeDOwMgCFUssHgodCdkPDA&biw=1280&bih=904

 

[bonesreef]

Scardall, He has been through a Prazi treatment & Fresh water dips do not turn up any flukes. I wish it was flukes though so then at least I would what I was dealing with.

another note I figured to mention: Whatever the fish has it does not infect the eyes.

 

[scardall]

http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/disease-sw.html

A disease chart link.

 

[bonesreef]

Scardall,
After going through the chart the one which fits the most is Vibrio anquillarium. HOWEVER..if its commonly referred to as the wipeout disease, its sure is not hurting any of the others in QT with it.
So with that said, I have no clue still. but I truly do appreciate you sharing that chart

I'm going to take a video of him tonight and post it. Once thats up hopefully it will help better zero in on what it is.

 

[charleslotz]

Hi, ... Firstly beautiful fish , I'm a die hard emporer fan , I have 10 inch myself ,... For +3 years , I'm bi no means an expert but in my experiance I agree with sc50964 ,... Emporer is very susceptible to water quality and fully changed adults are difficult to acclimatize to tank life and susceptible to stress , ... Approx a year ago I had the same issue my fish got ich and I quarantine him and his home... The quarantine did not go well and I cured the ich and the same symptoms appeared as yours.... I was also perplexed and did some research , in the end I attrabuted it to stress ,... From the small quarantine 45 gallon black tub , and no hiding place mine in the end of his quarantine he started to show signs of hlle , which was after a 6 week stint in quarantine,... The reason I surmise it was stress was when I moved him to my 400 display within 2 weeks he was back on this fins grunting at the other fish... I also used secon and immune booster from zeovit... In his food , ,... I would suggest you get him in a comfortable environment , With live rock , some pineapple sponges and he will bounce right back... If you have other larger angels or aggressive fish in your display this could spell disaster he needs a stress free environment... Of coarse I could be wrong and perhaps my cleaner wrasse or some other factor cured him.... Just some experience and hope this experiance helps....

 

[bonesreef]

Charleslotz,
Thank you very much for your reply. Your experience sounds very similar to mine indeed...and my Emp has just started to show signs of HLLE. The QT area he's in is 40gallons, however the entire QT setup is close to 140gallons of water(so this could cause stress being he is around 8"). My display tank is just under 400gallons and I think I may do what you suggest and put him in. I know he's clean of everything else...and at the moment there are no aggressive fish in the display to cause him harm.
Where do you purchase pineapple sponges from??
Once again thank you and everyone who has taken the time to reply!

 

[sc50964]

Thanks sc50964!
Do you have any pictures of your Emp during the time it showed?
What do you suggest I should feed?
He eats selcon enriched PE Mysis, spectrum pellets, & nori sheets.

Being a QT tank, I try to keep lighting on a short cycle. Does anyone suspect this could be due to lack of exposure to enough lighting per 24hour period?

He had that years ago. I doubt that I can still find the pictures. For the lack of better description, the pattern looked like pale aging spots that have irregular patterns. It sounds like he is already having a good diet. At this point, if all water parameters check out, I would consider moving him to DT if he is clear from all other problems. Mine eventually got better and he was eating formula 2 pellets and frozen krill soaked with garlic guard.

 

[charleslotz]

Pineapple sponges grow in our aquariums small white tipe growth enevitable you have them in your tank,... Under rock all over... , unless you have silicone buster in your rodi...

This is controversial so use with caution ,... But I dose a silicate product ,... " zeovit sponge power" or there are some other products , ... Can't remember at the moment I use sponge power, ... Sponges eat silicates so I keep a lage volume of live rock in the sump dose silicate and every couple months they are coved in pineapple sponges... Move to display ,... And emporer goes wild .... Beware Silicate promotes diatom growth .... So if you don't have low lutriant system your tank will go brown ,... It's benifitual but unsightly.

 

[charleslotz]

Sorry it's silica ..... Not silicone or silicate ....

Randy homes suggested this to another member :
Sodium Silicate Solution, 16oz

http://www.sciencecompany.com/Sodium-Silicate-Solution-500ml-P6375.aspx

 

[4FordFamily]

I've had emperor Angels do this as a response to many things, but to that degree of splotching it was velvet for me. It showed no signs other than eventually killing the fish as they lost color. Not sure what is on the head but other methods do not do anything for velvet generally. Some fish can live with velvet for quite awhile I had a queen angel last 2 months with it could not figure out the issue because it showed no classic symptoms until my chevron tang finally gave the ailment away. Killed several Angels.

Angels are not at all sensitive to cupramine, I've now run the following through high doses of cupramine (2-3x recommend dose)

2X emperor
2X queen
2x passer
Blue face
Rock beauty
5x flame
2x potters
Flameback
Coral beauty
3x Red Sea Regal angel
And a moorish idol (not an angel but similar).

I lost zero of them. Just increase dose slowly. They were all in this high level cupramine for 2-3 months while a tank ran fallow. Absolutely no trouble at all other than an emperor that developed a what I suspect was a cancerous tumor. I doubt it was the cupramine but to be fair I will mention it.

 

[Humblefish]

I've seen this before. It's a "mystery disease" which has not as of yet been identified. Sometimes it seems to just go away on it's own, other times the fish dies. One theory is it's not a disease at all, but rather a delayed reaction to copper exposure some fish have. I know you said you didn't treat with copper, but what about before you? A lot of wholesalers have been treating their holding tanks with copper/formalin the past year or so to combat widespread velvet outbreaks.

One thing though... you said this fish had ich at some point. How exactly did you treat it?

 

[bonesreef]

Charleslotz, Thanks for the info on pineapple sponges!

3FordFamily,
I may have to try cupramine...I'm running out of options and thats the only one I have not tried with this fish.

Humblefish, thanks for helping zero in on what it is. When treating ick I used paraguard & large water changes multiple times a week.
I'm hoping that it goes away...but its come back 3 times now. I'm just glad it does not seem to be transferable to others. Anything else you suggest I should try?

 

[Humblefish]

Humblefish, thanks for helping zero in on what it is. When treating ick I used paraguard & large water changes multiple times a week. I'm hoping that it goes away...but its come back 3 times now. I'm just glad it does not seem to be transferable to others. Anything else you suggest I should try?

Seachem sent me some Paraguard, and I'll admit I haven't gotten around to experimenting with it yet. However, a chemical analysis of it's active ingredients didn't reveal anything that is known to eradicate ich. It is considered more of an "ich management tool" by those I know who use it.