ESV B-Ionic 2 Part

Discussion in 'Reef Chemistry by Randy Holmes-Farley' started by Jimmy Lee, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Jimmy Lee

    Jimmy Lee Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    240123-ESV-B-Ionic-Calcium-Buffer-System-e_1.jpg

    I have read that B-Ionic 2 part (and Magnesium) has trace elements in the formula.
    Does anyone know if it also has macro elements as well?

    I am wondering if you can successfully run a SPS dominant tank with just B-Ionic and...say Acro Power for amino's without any water changes., along with the correct filtration of course.

    Thanks
     
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  2. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    I'm not certain what you are defining as macro elements, but bear in mind that "having" the elements (which it does) is not the same as boosting them if low.

    Many two parts and Balling products are not designed to boost these, even though they have them. They are designed to keep the method itself from lowering them.

    I discuss it here in the context of copper, but it applies to nearly all elements:

    http://www.reefedition.com/the-many-methods-for-supplementing-calcium-and-alkalinity/

    One issue that has confused some reef keepers, however, is the presence of trace elements. Assuming that these products are actually formulated with every ion such that a true natural seawater residue remained (let’s call this the “ideal” product), then it will necessarily contain such ions as copper. Since copper is elevated in some reef tanks, and is toxic to many invertebrates, reef keepers have wrongly criticized this method as adding more copper. That’s actually not what would happen. Since these products leave a natural seawater residue, and since copper may be elevated in concentration in many reef tanks relative to seawater, then using these “ideal” products will actually LOWER copper levels because when the increase in salinity is corrected, the copper will drop.

    For example:

    You have copper in your aquarium at 4 ppb and salinity of S=35.

    You add a two part additive that over the course of a month raises salinity to S=36, and raises copper to 4.02 ppb.

    Then you correct the salinity back to S=35 by diluting everything in the tank with fresh water, and you get a final copper concentration of 3.9 ppb.

    Does this happen in real products and not “ideal” products? I have no idea. But the statement by manufacturers that it contains all ions in natural ratios, including copper, should not be viewed as a concern that it is exacerbating a heavy metal problem.

    The rise in salinity of these products over time can be very roughly calculated, though there are several reasons why this calculation is only an estimate. For every 1000 meq of alkalinity added in this fashion (and the matching amount of calcium) these products will deliver on the order of 60 grams of other ions to the tank. In a tank with a low calcification demand (defined later to be 18.3 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (0.4 dKH/day)) this effect will raise the salinity by 3 ppt per year (compared to a normal salinity of S ~35). In a high demand tank (defined later to be 219 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (4.4 dKH/day)), the salinity will rise by 35 ppt in a year, or approximately doubling the salinity. Consequently, the salinity should be monitored closely in using these types of additives, especially in a tank with high calcification rates.
     
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  3. Jimmy Lee

    Jimmy Lee Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    I am just trying to put together a plan B for dosing ALK, CAL, trace and macro elements. Ive heard the term trace elements and macro elements used here, are they the same or different?
    I currently use Triton and its working great! Just a little scared that the product is always hit or miss weather its in stock or now.
    I like the idea or no water changing system and its currently working for me now, do not want to switch back to traditional reefing if I can help it.
     
  4. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    IMO, the term macro elements comes from agriculture and it should stay there. If there are specific ones that are of concern (say, potassium), then each will have their own issues.

    I would not assume that the tank will benefit from any dosing beyond B-ionic, but if you have a lot of growth it may.

    B-ionic wont' supplement trace elements more than a tiny water change will, so that may be a place to begin to look. Things like iron, vanadium, etc.
     
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  5. Jimmy Lee

    Jimmy Lee Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Thank you.
     
  6. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    You're welcome.

    Happy Reefing! :)
     
  7. Seame

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    B-ionic wont' supplement trace elements more than a tiny water change will, so

    Randy Holmes-Farley if you don' mind what do you consider a tiny water change? It was suggested to me that ESV B Ionic would provide better colors in coral using BRS two part and I would really like to understand what trace elements are in EVS B Ionic vs a std 2 part if any and if its benefical factors are dramatic enough to the extra cost. Secondly what other trace elements would I need to add to say BRS two part to be a closer match.

    I have a mixed reef leaning to more sps and acros

    Thx
    Dave
     
  8. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    I've never seen an analysis of what is actually in B-ionic, but if you take their claims at face value, if you are dosing the equivalent of 1.1 dKH per day (and the same volume of the calcium part), you will have accomplished about the same in terms of trace element "supplementation" as one 32% water change over the course of a year. :)

    That's potentially a big deal if something like potassium will otherwise drop by 32%. It's hardly noticeably for things that are rapidly depleted anyway (such as iron).

    IMO, it is worth testing trace element supplements (by trial and error effects on the tnak, or by Triton/ICP testing) whether you use B-ionic or a cheaper two part.
     
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