Euphyllia not feeling ok / not opening fully ?

[Katze]

Hi everyone
I've bought an euphyllia about 2-3 weeks ago in that time line it was looking pretty good BUT
Last day I've done a waterchange (usual 10%) after that I measured a phosphate of 0.2-0.18 (+dosed 2,5 ml of nopox that day) the week before that one it was only 0.05-0.02
Also I'm not sure but the flow may not be the best had to move it 1x / week in it's current position, where was looking the best so far.
The question what causes this kind of closing up. And I need help resolving this. +everything looks nice other than this coral
current parameters:
Sal.: 1.025-1.026
PO4: 0.2
NO3: 40-30

Light setting: Maxspect ethereal
cool white: ~80%
blue: 90%
green: 30%
red: 30%
warm white: 30%
+ infos
-I did have 2 zoa polyps pop
-I did move my ricordea out of it's hospital container and is relatively close to the euphyllia
-I had to remove a calcinus elegans, since they harassed my zoas

Pictures:
-flow off (notice the white thing at it's mouth, maybe coral slime from stress ?)

flow on

 

[Katze]

if they do see if they will take it back for a credit and wait till the palytoxin in your tank is gone

That's a nice idea well thank you I'll wait a day or two to see what happens

 

[Katze]

No cipro best left to humans and an alternative- Not solution. First issue I see is location- They are best at upper half of tank where they receive medium light and water flow. Too much flow and they can get stressed and even tear away from skeleton. Too little flow and they shrink.
Medium light necessary for their energy source known as Zooxanthellae but too much light , they expel this zooxanthellae which many think its pooping.
Your Phosphate is high which is one of the culprits- best range .04- .08
Calcium should be no less than 380 for their skeletal health
Nitrate no higher than 25 - yours a bit high

This IS NOT ZOA palytoxins and mainly water quality.

For lights adjust to this and see if torch responds

cool white: ~60
blue: 90%
green: 10
red: 15
warm white: 20%

This is Some of my euphyllia:

Thank you ! I'll take a look into it

 

[vetteguy53081]

So you think it's a disease of some sort ? What's a cipro bath ? May I have a link or something ?

Add a pouch of chemipure blue or elite to help lower phos and nitrate levels safely and keep them in check

See below. Working Medical myself I much agree with initial post:

Please STOP CIPROFLOXACIN DIPS and other antibiotics

It is surprisingly frequent the use of antibiotics on DIPs these days. Some users know me as a reefer only, but I am also a doctor. I will not enter the discussion on holobiont and why bacteria are important for the corals… But I would like to create a HUGE ALERT about dipping corals on...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Reeflix]

so what exactly is cipro? is it bad for people?

 

[Katze]

Add a pouch of chemipure blue or elite to help lower phos and nitrate levels safely and keep them in check

See below. Working Medical myself I much agree with initial post:

Please STOP CIPROFLOXACIN DIPS and other antibiotics

It is surprisingly frequent the use of antibiotics on DIPs these days. Some users know me as a reefer only, but I am also a doctor. I will not enter the discussion on holobiont and why bacteria are important for the corals… But I would like to create a HUGE ALERT about dipping corals on...

www.reef2reef.com

I use Red Sea NOPOX and I use LaCl if needed but I don't want to decrease po4 too fast

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

well compared to my financing for corals it is expensive +my 2nd most expensive coral that's why I am so anxious to help it

Let's take a breath.

First, you're doing a great job with your tank

Second, all LPS will "pout" occasionally and close up or not extend their polyps fully. If this happens again (and it will), give it a day or two before panicking and making any changes, dosing, dipping, etc (by this I mean changes directly intended to "fix" the coral... other normal maintenance is fine). Related to this.

Third, the fact that this happened right after a water change is actually good - it means that there may have been a temporary change in temp, flow, nutritients, etc, that ticked the coral off and that it's quite likely it will be back to it's normal self soon.

Fourth, are you sure this is actually a torch? It could be a frammer (frogspawn/hammer hybrid) and their tentacles often aren't as long as torches'.

Fifth, you may need to adjust the flow. It appears that the coral is getting strong flow on the left side and this can stress and even damage the coral. You don't want to move it a lot, but if you prefer not to adjust your powerheads, you should move the frag to a spot where it gets gentler flow, or to one where stronger flow is not constant.

Lastly (for now, lol), please don't chase numbers. You said you tested phosphate after the water change and then added nopox... Try not to be too reactive to single test results - track trends instead and then act accordingly.

Good luck!!

 

[vetteguy53081]

I use Red Sea NOPOX and I use LaCl if needed but I don't want to decrease po4 too fast

Hold off on NoPx- causes problems especially bringing down po4 too quickly imposing stress on certain coral

 

[Katze]

Let's take a breath.

First, you're doing a great job with your tank

Second, all LPS will "pout" occasionally and close up or not extend their polyps fully. If this happens again (and it will), give it a day or two before panicking and making any changes, dosing, dipping, etc (by this I mean changes directly intended to "fix" the coral... other normal maintenance is fine). Related to this.

Third, the fact that this happened right after a water change is actually good - it means that there may have been a temporary change in temp, flow, nutritients, etc, that ticked the coral off and that it's quite likely it will be back to it's normal self soon.

Fourth, are you sure this is actually a torch? It could be a frammer (frogspawn/hammer hybrid) and their tentacles often aren't as long as torches'.

Fifth, you may need to adjust the flow. It appears that the coral is getting strong flow on the left side and this can stress and even damage the coral. You don't want to move it a lot, but if you prefer not to adjust your powerheads, you should move the frag to a spot where it gets gentler flow, or to one where stronger flow is not constant.

Lastly (for now, lol), please don't chase numbers. You said you tested phosphate after the water change and then added nopox... Try not to be too reactive to single test results - track trends instead and then act accordingly.

Good luck!!

Thank you, I don't know what subspecies is it. I kinda want to change the flow anyways, but I'll wait with it +I have an AC powerhead so I can't adjust it easily. I don't think I'm chasing numbers PO4: 0.2 is simply too high isn't it ?
(If I may ask why do you think I'm doing a good job with this tank?)

 

[Katze]

Hold off on NoPx- causes problems especially bringing down po4 too quickly imposing stress on certain coral

When I'm doseing it, I usually measure NO3 and PO4 every 4-3 days

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

In terms of corals: a small forest of tree corals (nephthea), 2 discosomas a rhodactis, 2 kinds of zoas and a gorgonian they are all looking great.
And I don't have any idea on what kind of is it.

One more thought-
Mushrooms and leathers are some of the worst for chemical coral warfare. If you're not already, you might want to run carbon to help clear these from the water. They will affect LPS in high enough concentration. Routine water changes also help (which I realize is where you started with the current issue )

 

[Katze]

One more thought-
Mushrooms and leathers are some of the worst for chemical coral warfare. If you're not already, you might want to run carbon to help clear these from the water. They will affect LPS in high enough concentration. Routine water changes also help (which I realize is where you started with the current issue )

they still do it when they have space to grow ?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Thank you, I don't know what subspecies is it. I kinda want to change the flow anyways, but I'll wait with it +I have an AC powerhead so I can't adjust it easily. I don't think I'm chasing numbers PO4: 0.2 is simply too high isn't it ?
(If I may ask why do you think I'm doing a good job with this tank?)

PO4 of 0.2 is not necessarily too high, ESPECIALLY in a softy/LPS tank. Many people have phosphates of close to or higher than 1.0 and their tanks are great. Plus, without testing routinely (which you might already do), you don't know if it was a temporary shift due to something related to the water change (stirring up the sand, etc) and so dosing could end up taking phos too low.

Regarding the powerhead, you can move it/adjust the direction even if the speed is not variable.
Whatever you do, don't let the coral continue to be blasted like it currently is in the photo.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

they still do it when they have space to grow ?

They can, yes

 

[bpbonds]

I have own a lot of Euphyllia! Frog Spawn, Hammers and Torches, if the water quality is not where it needs to be they can and will close up or not open. I have noticed mine will tend to do that just before my up coming water change, after the water change they are happy again. I don't think you have a toxin issue, it seems like a water chemistry issue, secondly, they sometimes take a few days maybe even a week to get properly acclimated to your tank. You may end up having to move it to a different location in your tank, it may prefer better lighting and or flow, I have moved mine too!.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have own a lot of Euphyllia! Frog Spawn, Hammers and Torches, if the water quality is not where it needs to be they can and will close up or not open. I have noticed mine will tend to do that just before my up coming water change, after the water change they are happy again. I don't think you have a toxin issue, it seems like a water chemistry issue, secondly, they sometimes take a few days maybe even a week to get properly acclimated to your tank. You may end up having to move it to a different location in your tank, it may prefer better lighting and or flow, I have moved mine too!.

I agree- waterquality as stated prior. Leathers can release turpenes but its not it either and with suggested chemipure blue, those and phos would be addressed.

 

[Katze]

I agree- waterquality as stated prior. Leathers can release turpenes but its not it either and with suggested chemipure blue, those and phos would be addressed.

I took a look at this substance and It is not available in any of my fish shops

 

[bpbonds]

I took a look at this substance and It is not available in any of my fish shops

Chem pure is on Amazon.

 

[Katze]

Chem pure is on Amazon.

It is pricey though any alternatives ?

 

[bpbonds]

It is pricey though any alternatives ?

Carbon, or GFO in a mesh bag, Honestly Chem pure is relatively cheap in comparison and it lasts a long time.

 

[Katze]

No cipro best left to humans and an alternative- Not solution. First issue I see is location- They are best at upper half of tank where they receive medium light and water flow. Too much flow and they can get stressed and even tear away from skeleton. Too little flow and they shrink.
Medium light necessary for their energy source known as Zooxanthellae but too much light , they expel this zooxanthellae which many think its pooping.
Your Phosphate is high which is one of the culprits- best range .04- .08
Calcium should be no less than 380 for their skeletal health
Nitrate no higher than 25 - yours a bit high

This IS NOT ZOA palytoxins and mainly water quality.

For lights adjust to this and see if torch responds

cool white: ~60
blue: 90%
green: 10
red: 15
warm white: 20%

This is Some of my euphyllia:

When should I expect changes ? I moved the coral to a spot with better flow and a bit more light + I'm planning to buy carbon 2-3 days later