Euro bracing.

[Jakedboutdoors]

Doing research on de rimming and euro bracing a 40 breeder. I've only come up with a few people doing it years ago. Seems like it would work. Just asking around to see if anyone know structure capabilities of euro braces or if anyone has had succes in doing this with long term results. I aware the glass may not be finished under the brace and I would fix that but just like the idea. Thanks

 

[Oscar47f]

Euro bracing is nice it helps with bowing though it’s more important for softer materials like acrylic than it is with glass as glass doesn’t really deform much before breaking.. the eurobracing can be nice bc you can use it as a shelf and stuff but structurally you’re not getting too much out of it

 

[winzig]

Structurally you are getting a benefit from euro bracing.

 

[Oscar47f]

Structurally you are getting a benefit from euro bracing.

I disagree it’s not that significant depending on material and glass thickness in most cases it’s rather negligible as most of the holding power is concentrated on the silicone seals

 

[SaltyBlue]

I disagree it’s not that significant depending on material and glass thickness in most cases it’s rather negligible as most of the holding power is concentrated on the silicone seals

Disagree, I’m interpreting original question to be whether you can remove 40 breeder rim and apply your own euro bracing. Bracing allows for reduced glass thickness compared to rimless. The original aquarium design selected glass thickness based on bracing present. My guess is there would be bowing and significantly increased deformation at the seals, long term issue

 

[Oscar47f]

Disagree, I’m interpreting original question to be whether you can remove 40 breeder rim and apply your own euro bracing. Bracing allows for reduced glass thickness compared to rimless. The original aquarium design selected glass thickness based on bracing present. My guess is there would be bowing and significantly increased deformation at the seals, long term issue

If that’s how it was meant then I agree with this if in fact that’s how glass thickness was chosen

Wasn’t this popular in the early 2000’s? I believe I saw people remove bracing can’t speak to how the tanks held up though

 

[Jakedboutdoors]

I was hoping someone who has removed the bracing and euro brace one could chime in. Im sure it's been done. Seems doable and if euro braced right would seem like it wouldnt bow but idk could fail miserably also. Maybe a tank builder could tell me.

 

[UncommonSense]

While we’re on the topic; here’s a thread that taught me a lot about the general subject of tank construction, and may help you out!

Glass thickness for size/number of gallons, etc. calculator...?

There used to be a calculator where you could put in the size of the tank you wanted to build, etc. - and it would then tell you the minimum thickness of glass you needed, etc. Anyone know where that is? Or?

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Ben Pedersen]

I have an 80 gallon 36” long 24” wide and 22” tall. It used to have a brace across the middle. I removed it about 6 years ago. It’s still fine with no noticed bowing.

I think the continuous black plastic brace around the outside rim is providing the majority of the support.

 

[exnisstech]

I disagree it’s not that significant depending on material and glass thickness in most cases it’s rather negligible as most of the holding power is concentrated on the silicone seals

Do you help design redsea tanks?

No one could convince me that this Euro brace is insignificant

 

[lbacha]

On a 40g breeder the plastic frame is more for aesthetics and a place for the lid to rest than for structural integrity. It is fairly shallow 16” and not too long of a span 36” so the 1/4” glass can hold without much bracing. Once you get to a 4’ tank like a 55g that brace is really important. Not only is it taller but there is a much longer span of unsupported glass. I have seen the middle brace on 55’s break and the gap is about 1/2” - 3/4” or so meaning the glass is bowing and under pressure. Now this is just in relationship to the glass itself. Without a frame or euro bracing you are putting all the pressure of the panes on the silicone seams vs taking some of that pressure away by supporting the corners. I would be more concerned about this vs a 40g bowing and breaking. Oh and I have pulled the rim on these cheaper tanks and the glass is typically not polished so you will need to do that or risk cutting yourself.

 

[Oscar47f]

Do you help design redsea tanks?

No one could convince me that this Euro brace is insignificant

lol that was good I prefer innovative marine myself

Nooo it’s not insignificant it’s just not typically neeeded I’m a mechanical engineer euro bracing is great for the bottom of the tank and to heavily armor the joints which are the main failure points… a brace at the top is just relying on whatever the tensile strength of the adhesive is… a brace that goes around the outside will be better at taking taking load and stiffening the glass a bit and even so glass is brittle enough it doesn’t bow like acrylic so if the pane is properly sized there’s little benefit to a euro brace however it’s also a personal preference thing too not a wrong and right thing to do

This can be proven with basic math it’s not a he said she said thing just a math thing

 

[UncommonSense]

Oh and I have pulled the rim on these cheaper tanks and the glass is typically not polished so you will need to do that or risk cutting yourself.

I’ll just throw in a few photos from choice tanks I’ve cut apart for project glass here…

— Construction quality varies enormously on these mass marketed tanks!

Yes, that’s a scrap of actual wood in the bottom seam…

 

[lbacha]

Do you help design redsea tanks?

No one could convince me that this Euro brace is insignificant

lol that was good I prefer innovative marine myself

Nooo it’s not insignificant it’s just not typically neeeded I’m a mechanical engineer euro bracing is great for the bottom of the tank and to heavily armor the joints which are the main failure points… a brace at the top is just relying on whatever the tensile strength of the adhesive is… a brace that goes around the outside will be better at taking taking load and stiffening the glass a bit and even so glass is brittle enough it doesn’t bow like acrylic so if the pane is properly sized there’s little benefit to a euro brace however it’s also a personal preference thing too not a wrong and right thing to do

This can be proven with basic math it’s not a he said she said thing just a math thing

Top braces and euro bracing allows manufactures to use thinner glass (glass does deflect/bow). This is why rimless tanks are made of thicker glass to account for the fact that the top is not supported and will bow on longer spans. Euro bracing on the top stiffens the pane to ensure it doesn’t bow. When manufactures use thinner glass they will usually also add cross braces which are definitely a must have unless your glass is thick. Even then you are putting a lot of stress on the silicone seams which is why you see a lot of rimless failures at the verticals seams.

 

[exnisstech]

Top braces and euro bracing allows manufactures to use thinner glass (glass does deflect/bow). This is why rimless tanks are made of thicker glass to account for the fact that the top is not supported and will bow on longer spans. Euro bracing on the top stiffens the pane to ensure it doesn’t bow. When manufactures use thinner glass they will usually also add cross braces which are definitely a must have unless your glass is thick. Even then you are putting a lot of stress on the silicone seams which is why you see a lot of rimless failures at the verticals seams.

I fixed cars for 35 years so all I have is my opinion but the tank shown is 3/4" glass so I don't think they put that single piece Euro brace on so they could use thinner glass on the tank. But maybe I'm wrong and it should have been 1.5" glass

I would never bring a large rimless tank into my home without euro bracing.

 

[lbacha]

Top braces and euro bracing allows manufactures to use thinner glass (glass does deflect/bow). This is why rimless tanks are made of thicker glass to account for the fact that the top is not supported and will bow on longer spans. Euro bracing on the top stiffens the pane to ensure it doesn’t bow. When manufactures use thinner glass they will usually also add cross braces which are definitely a must have unless your glass is thick. Even then you are putting a lot of stress on the silicone seams which is why you see a lot of rimless failures at the verticals seams.

I fixed cars for 35 years so all I have is my opinion but the tank shown is 3/4" glass so I don't think they put that single piece Euro brace on so they could use thinner glass on the tank. But maybe I'm wrong and it should have been 1.5" glass

I would never bring a large rimless tank into my home without euro bracing.

That looks like a 6’ tank and I agree I would never go rimless with a tank that long. Too much pressure on the seams even if the glass doesn’t bow. I have a 8’ tank with 1/2” thick glass with a full eurobrace and 3 cross braces (every 24”’s)

 

[exnisstech]

That looks like a 6’ tank and I agree I would never go rimless with a tank that long. Too much pressure on the seams even if the glass doesn’t bow. I have a 8’ tank with 1/2” thick glass with a full eurobrace and 3 cross braces (every 24”’s)

Its a WB 84x30x25" . This is the first large rimless tank I've had. Knowing what I know now I'd pay extra for euro bracing just to have the shelf and water splash guard lol.

 

[lbacha]

The splash prevention alone is worth it

 

[BeanAnimal]

I disagree it’s not that significant depending on material and glass thickness in most cases it’s rather negligible as most of the holding power is concentrated on the silicone seals

That is not correct. The “eurobrace” prevents deflection of the long panels. Deflection puts peeling stress on the vertical joints, something that silicone does not resist as well as pulling stress,

Moreover, the eurobrace prevents the top corners from separating,

The black plastic trim does the same, and on longer tanks the cross brace prevents deflection.

Is it needed on a 40 breeder? Likely yes, the top trim adds substantially to the safety factor by preventing joint separation from starting at the top. If you remove it then you lose safety factor. There is a difference between old 40s and new 40s btw. Back in the day they were true 1/4 inch (6.35 mm) sides. Today they are 5 mm sides there is a big difference in both joint strength and deflection.

This can be proven with basic math it’s not a he said she said thing just a math thing

Too have the same safety factor for the same size tank without trim, glass thickness would be increased. This provides more joint area and less deflection.



Lastly, it is highly likely that the top edge under the trim is not finished clean and may have nicks, sharp edges or mismatched corners etc.