Fallow periods: Going Fishless

[Humblefish]

Will brook stay around unnoticed on fish?

Brook, uronema, velvet and bacterial infections will all show visible physical symptoms within 1 month of purchase. Usually much sooner: 1-2 weeks. So even those who choose not to treat with anything and just observe for 1 month will save their DT a world of hurt. Only two diseases - ich and flukes - can harbor inside the gills, out of sight, for longer than a month.

 

[shoelaceike]

Brook, uronema, velvet and bacterial infections will all show visible physical symptoms within 1 month of purchase. Usually much sooner: 1-2 weeks. So even those who choose not to treat with anything and just observe for 1 month will save their DT a world of hurt. Only two diseases - ich and flukes - can harbor inside the gills, out of sight, for longer than a month.

So if I lose a pair of clowns now to brook, I can get more clowns in 2 months without a worry? (Assuming the new ones are healthy...) This is all with other fish in the tank not showing any signs during this period.

 

[Humblefish]

So if I lose a pair of clowns now to brook, I can get more clowns in 2 months without a worry? (Assuming the new ones are healthy...) This is all with other fish in the tank not showing any signs during this period.

To clarify, my post above was more about newly acquired fish and the timeline to show visible physical symptoms of diseases they are already carrying.

You are inquiring about skipping the fallow period for brook in your DT and if no other fish show symptoms, introducing more clownfish in 2 months, correct? That is a tricky question to answer. In theory yes, if no fish show symptoms of brook after 2 months then you should be good to go. However, there is some anecdotal evidence that fish treated for brook and then placed back in the same environment will build up a temporary immunity to the disease following second exposure. This usually only lasts 6 months max before full blown symptoms are seen again. During this time, the fish can still be carriers and infect other fish.

 

[shoelaceike]

To clarify, my post above was more about newly acquired fish and the timeline to show visible physical symptoms of diseases they are already carrying.

You are inquiring about skipping the fallow period for brook in your DT and if no other fish show symptoms, introducing more clownfish in 2 months, correct? That is a tricky question to answer. In theory yes, if no fish show symptoms of brook after 2 months then you should be good to go. However, there is some anecdotal evidence that fish treated for brook and then placed back in the same environment will build up a temporary immunity to the disease following second exposure. This usually only lasts 6 months max before full blown symptoms are seen again. During this time, the fish can still be carriers and infect other fish.

Thanks. In this situation, the other fish in the tank were not treated so according to this, if they are carriers, they would have or will very soon show symptoms..... Therfore, I should be ok in 2 months.....however, strangely the clowns in question were with me for about 6 months with no issues....I had no other fish with brook yet these 2 got it now......unless it came in on a coral or something..... They happened to have got it soon after a move making me believe they were carrying it around and suppressing it until the stress of the move came....

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks. In this situation, the other fish in the tank were not treated so according to this, if they are carriers, they would have or will very soon show symptoms..... Therfore, I should be ok in 2 months.....however, strangely the clowns in question were with me for about 6 months with no issues....I had no other fish with brook yet these 2 got it now......unless it came in on a coral or something..... They happened to have got it soon after a move making me believe they were carrying it around and suppressing it until the stress of the move came....

FWIW; Here is a scenario I encountered with brook ONE TIME that I still can't adequately explain:

A lady's clownfish (reg ocellaris, I believe) had an outbreak of brook in a nano reef, so she gave them a bath using a product which contains formalin. Against my advice, she put them right back in the DT and the clownfish didn't have a recurrence. This I've seen before, as outlined above. A full year later she moves a couple hours away, breaks down the nano and sets it back up at the new location. Shortly thereafter, the clowns get brook again. She gives them another formalin bath, throws them back in the tank, and it's been a year or two now and all is still well. o_O

Now... I've seen this done before with very different results. The clownfish either keep getting brook or the 6 month rule applies. But this is the first and only time I've seen fish go more than a full year without showing symptoms, and symptoms only return it seems once the fish are "stressed". It's very possible what is known about brook and its life cycle is not fully understood by science.

 

[shoelaceike]

Well this is somewhat similar to my situation. I had 2 clowns die of brook 6 months ago....soon after i got the 2 that just died of brook.....there were times the clowns didn't look great but they always pulled through until the move....

 

[edosan]

As I promise, here is my tank after the fallow, happier than ever

 

[Humblefish]

Beautiful tank @edosan! :)

 

[Humblefish]

Can't believe I forgot to add this in here -

If you want to test whether or not your fallow period has been successful, do this: Go buy a couple of freshwater black mollies. Drip acclimate them into your DT over a 3-4 hr period. Remember to temperature control their water, add an airstone to provide oxygen, and use a little Prime if you suspect ammonia is starting to build up.

Any (freshwater) diseases the mollies were carrying will be eradicated once they are in full saltwater. So, no need to QT them. However, mollies have no immunity whatsoever to marine diseases, so ich/velvet will show up easily (and quickly) against the black contrast. This is why they are such a good "canary fish" to test whether any diseases are still lurking in your fallow aquarium.

You can keep them if you like or convert them back to full freshwater. They are pretty good at eating GHA, I believe. However, they typically don't like high flow if you have an SPS aquarium.

This article has more info on keeping mollies in SW: http://hubpages.com/animals/Keeping-Breeding-and-Raising-Saltwater-Mollies

 

[edosan]

Beautiful tank @edosan! :)

Thanks!, check the new one (I like it a bit more) in my signature ;)

Very good idea about Mollies! thanks for sharing that!

 

[michellejy]

I wanted to double check on the fallow period for brook/velvet. I had read elsewhere that people recommend 10-11 weeks, the same as ich. Is there a reason you recommend 6 instead?

 

[melypr1985]

I wanted to double check on the fallow period for brook/velvet. I had read elsewhere that people recommend 10-11 weeks, the same as ich. Is there a reason you recommend 6 instead?

6 is recommended because the life cycle is different/ shorter. Most of us say to go the whole 76 days just to be safe and sure that all parasites (ich, brook, velvet) have been starved out.

 

[Twisted_Blenny]

Can't believe I forgot to add this in here -

If you want to test whether or not your fallow period has been successful, do this: Go buy a couple of freshwater black mollies. Drip acclimate them into your DT over a 3-4 hr period. Remember to temperature control their water, add an airstone to provide oxygen, and use a little Prime if you suspect ammonia is starting to build up.

Any (freshwater) diseases the mollies were carrying will be eradicated once they are in full saltwater. So, no need to QT them. However, mollies have no immunity whatsoever to marine diseases, so ich/velvet will show up easily (and quickly) against the black contrast. This is why they are such a good "canary fish" to test whether any diseases are still lurking in your fallow aquarium.

You can keep them if you like or convert them back to full freshwater. They are pretty good at eating GHA, I believe. However, they typically don't like high flow if you have an SPS aquarium.

This article has more info on keeping mollies in SW: http://hubpages.com/animals/Keeping-Breeding-and-Raising-Saltwater-Mollies

have a question about this? lets say you throw some mollies in and you do see signs of ich again after the fallow period. do you have to start the fallow period again the whole 76days?

 

[scott021467]

have a question about this? lets say you throw some mollies in and you do see signs of ich again after the fallow period. do you have to start the fallow period again the whole 76days?

I don't think Mollies are susceptible to marine ich. But ask around to verify that.

 

[edosan]

Hello, actually mollies are susceptible to marine ich, and the black ones can be used to check if there is ich in a tank.

And yes, if a fish show signs of ich, means that you need to start all over again. Is the cycle of the parasite.

 

[melypr1985]

I don't think Mollies are susceptible to marine ich. But ask around to verify that.

Once the molly is switched over to saltwater (slowly) it certainly can get ick. The theory here is that since the molly has never before been introduced to marine ich it would be the most suseptable fish and being black would be obvious if it were infected.

 

[scott021467]

I stand corrected..I learn something new every day..lol

 

[Humblefish]

Hello, actually mollies are susceptible to marine ich, and the black ones can be used to check if there is ich in a tank.

And yes, if a fish show signs of ich, means that you need to start all over again. Is the cycle of the parasite.

Once the molly is switched over to saltwater (slowly) it certainly can get ick. The theory here is that since the molly has never before been introduced to marine ich it would be the most suseptable fish and being black would be obvious if it were infected.

^^ Agree 100%

 

[TCFletch]

How long would it take a Molly to show signs of ich/velvet? Mine has been in the sump for 3 weeks and loves it in there! No signs of anything wrong with the Molly. Does this mean that my tank is ich free?

 

[Humblefish]

How long would it take a Molly to show signs of ich/velvet? Mine has been in the sump for 3 weeks and loves it in there! No signs of anything wrong with the Molly. Does this mean that my tank is ich free?

Typically, 1 week max. However, there is a flaw to the black molly test now that I stop and think about it. Let's say your DT was infested with the "72 day variant" of ich discovered during the Colorni and Burgess study. The study states:

Even under identical incubation conditions tomonts vary considerably in the time required to form theronts (Nigrelli and Ruggieri, 1966; Colorni, 1992; Burgess and Matthews, 1994a; Diggles and Lester, 1996b). Thus, theront excystment is very asynchronous, occurring between 3 and 72 days and peaking at 6 ± 2 days (Colorni, 1992). This differs significantly from I. multifiliis, where the theront excystment takes only 18-24 h at 23C (Dickerson and Dawe, 1995).

The reason for asynchronous excystment is unclear. There is no relationship between the tomont size and excystment time (Nigrelli and Ruggieri, 1966; Colorni, 1992; Diggles and Lester, 1996a,b). In fact, a large and a small tomont may produce theronts at the same time, even though the smaller tomont undergoes fewer divisions. When tomites do not form until at least 2 weeks, a mass of endoplasm remains undifferentiated and fewer live theronts are produced (Colorni, 1992). Whatever the cause, asynchronous excystment prevents simultaneous exhaustion of all tomonts, facilitates theront dispersal in time and appears so advantageous to C. irritans that the phenomenon should be interpreted as a strategy for survival (Colorni, 1985).

Does theront excystment taper off significantly and become erratic after 6 days? If you put the black mollies in on Day 30 (for example), but more theronts weren't released by the tomonts until Day 45 (for example); then 7 days wouldn't be enough exposure time for symptoms to show. (Remember, free swimming theronts have to be present in the water to latch onto the fish, become trophonts and white dots to show up.)

For this reason, it would be best not to do the black molly test until after the 76 day fallow period IMO.