Fear of failure...

[LordJoshaeus]

I have committed myself to setting up a saltwater tank...and boy am I scared I've had quite a bit of experience keeping and breeding freshwater fish, but my past experiences with saltwater were quite negative - the tanks were ugly and the corals and macroalgae did not thrive and typically died off (the fish and mobile inverts typically did fine). The fact saltwater is so expensive to set up and maintain does not help matters...I guess I am just looking for someone to tell me "you've got this!" and maybe give some advice to help ensure that happens. Thanks :)

 

[keagan]

You got this! Take your time, go slow doing everything. There's no rush to cycle, no rush to add coral, patience is key. My first reef tank was a mess, coral grew well but I struggled constantly with issues that could've been prevented, all because I wasn't patient enough. Good luck and I'm also building a new system ATM so if anything's frustrating you reach out I'll be dealing with the same little problems that come from running plumbing, dealing with the uglies, etc.

 

[kitti-fish]

I’m gonna be honest with you. The first year the tank ain’t going to look great. Mine didn’t! It was a lot of trial and error. A few coral losses. A few fish losses. I was going to throw in the towel but I already put so much money into this hobby so I wanted to see it through. It’s worth it in the end. You might not have a YouTube worthy tank within 1-2 years (I sure don’t) but it brings me so much joy to see my coral growing, my fish getting better, and the tank maturing over time. It’s not the easiest hobby and everyone is going to throw 1000 different thoughts on how to run your tank. In the end, do what’s best for you and don’t get discouraged too early. What size are you looking to get into? AIO, sump, HOB, or canister?

 

[LordJoshaeus]

You got this! Take your time, go slow doing everything. There's no rush to cycle, no rush to add coral, patience is key. My first reef tank was a mess, coral grew well but I struggled constantly with issues that could've been prevented, all because I wasn't patient enough. Good luck and I'm also building a new system ATM so if anything's frustrating you reach out I'll be dealing with the same little problems that come from running plumbing, dealing with the uglies, etc.

Thanks :) I'll be extra patient this time.

I’m gonna be honest with you. The first year the tank ain’t going to look great. Mine didn’t! It was a lot of trial and error. A few coral losses. A few fish losses. I was going to throw in the towel but I already put so much money into this hobby so I wanted to see it through. It’s worth it in the end. You might not have a YouTube worthy tank within 1-2 years (I sure don’t) but it brings me so much joy to see my coral growing, my fish getting better, and the tank maturing over time. It’s not the easiest hobby and everyone is going to throw 1000 different thoughts on how to run your tank. In the end, do what’s best for you and don’t get discouraged too early. What size are you looking to get into? AIO, sump, HOB, or canister?

It is a ten gallon I am setting up for my Pseudomugil cyanodorsalis colony. It has a 150 gph internal Aqueon Quiet flow filter, as well as an inch of aragonite sand and 7 lbs dry rock (may add more, perhaps live, rock). I am going to get used media from a nearby lfs to jump start the cycle and will further reinforce it with some fritz turbo start 900. I am planning to keep the lights off for months, adding copepods all the while, to allow micro fauna to build up before the uglies start...I want to see if I can minimize them that way. When should I add soft corals? When the uglies end? (Not planning on adding hard corals to this setup).

 

[mmorrison55]

I’ll be honest and may have some naysayers, but I believe keeping real small tanks like you are doing are harder than if you were setting up a 100 gallon.

Now thats not saying you can’t do it, and won’t jave success, just that your margin for error are smaller and you will need to keep a good routine until it becomes established.

I have a 200 gallon tank and a 25 gallon tank, and the 25 gallon tank showed negative signs and started to grow hair algae at the 1st hint of neglect where as my large tank can go several weeks without a water change and not show anything other than some algae that needs to be scraped off the glass.

But as long as you stay on top of it, keep your parameters in check and stable and keep up your maintenance, you should be fine.

Live rock will help stabilize things a great deal as well in a smaller tank.

Good luck and dont give up! I was just telling my wife that while freshwater tanks can look good, nothing beats a saltwater tank as far as im concerned.

 

[James CNM]

I have committed myself to setting up a saltwater tank...and boy am I scared I've had quite a bit of experience keeping and breeding freshwater fish, but my past experiences with saltwater were quite negative - the tanks were ugly and the corals and macroalgae did not thrive and typically died off (the fish and mobile inverts typically did fine). The fact saltwater is so expensive to set up and maintain does not help matters...I guess I am just looking for someone to tell me "you've got this!" and maybe give some advice to help ensure that happens. Thanks :)

If you have kept water before? Naf all "keeping freshwater fish etc" Like i said! If you have kept water then the only difference is you moving to salt. I would nvr say to anyone you got this!

Patience is the 1st thing you have to set in your mind.

Are you starting from scratch? Good quality dead rock, cycle from scratch..if you have the patience and can do that, in twelve months time you may have a really nice looking reef. It doesn't have to be expensive

 

[Fish Fan]

Thanks :) I'll be extra patient this time.

It is a ten gallon I am setting up for my Pseudomugil cyanodorsalis colony. It has a 150 gph internal Aqueon Quiet flow filter, as well as an inch of aragonite sand and 7 lbs dry rock (may add more, perhaps live, rock). I am going to get used media from a nearby lfs to jump start the cycle and will further reinforce it with some fritz turbo start 900. I am planning to keep the lights off for months, adding copepods all the while, to allow micro fauna to build up before the uglies start...I want to see if I can minimize them that way. When should I add soft corals? When the uglies end? (Not planning on adding hard corals to this setup).

I've never kept these fish, but if I remember correctly these are technically brackish water fish (unless I'm mistaken). What salinity would you be running here? If you're hoping to keep some soft corals, I think about 33 ppt is about the minimum, which may be too high for your fish.

I understand the idea of keeping the lights off for some months, but I think this can simply just delay the ugly phase. Your mileage may vary.

If you're concerned with the uglies, and want to minimize them, I would go with all real, wet live rock from a good local fish store if you can. For a 10 gallon tank that should be reasonably affordable, and would give you a better chance for success, with a minimal ugly phase. At the least, consider adding a couple pounds of live rock.

I think Fritz Turbostart is the best bottled bacteria product currently, but I don't think you need it in addition to some live rock.

You can add softies pretty much from the get go, they are typically rather forgiving and do well even in newer tanks.

Definitely let us know if you have further questions and good luck!

 

[sandracer76]

I have committed myself to setting up a saltwater tank...and boy am I scared I've had quite a bit of experience keeping and breeding freshwater fish, but my past experiences with saltwater were quite negative - the tanks were ugly and the corals and macroalgae did not thrive and typically died off (the fish and mobile inverts typically did fine). The fact saltwater is so expensive to set up and maintain does not help matters...I guess I am just looking for someone to tell me "you've got this!" and maybe give some advice to help ensure that happens. Thanks :)

I’ve had similar struggles and between listening to Ryan Batcheller on Serious Reefs Podcast and using AI Claude it has really aided my success. My tank broke so I’m in the process or restarting now. I’m super excited and know you will be too once you check him out!

 

[kitti-fish]

You got this! Take your time, go slow doing everything. There's no rush to cycle, no rush to add coral, patience is key. My first reef tank was a mess, coral grew well but I struggled constantly with issues that could've been prevented, all because I wasn't patient enough. Good luck and I'm also building a new system ATM so if anything's frustrating you reach out I'll be dealing with the same little problems that come from running plumbing, dealing with the uglies, etc.

Thanks :) I'll be extra patient this time.

I’m gonna be honest with you. The first year the tank ain’t going to look great. Mine didn’t! It was a lot of trial and error. A few coral losses. A few fish losses. I was going to throw in the towel but I already put so much money into this hobby so I wanted to see it through. It’s worth it in the end. You might not have a YouTube worthy tank within 1-2 years (I sure don’t) but it brings me so much joy to see my coral growing, my fish getting better, and the tank maturing over time. It’s not the easiest hobby and everyone is going to throw 1000 different thoughts on how to run your tank. In the end, do what’s best for you and don’t get discouraged too early. What size are you looking to get into? AIO, sump, HOB, or canister?

It is a ten gallon I am setting up for my Pseudomugil cyanodorsalis colony. It has a 150 gph internal Aqueon Quiet flow filter, as well as an inch of aragonite sand and 7 lbs dry rock (may add more, perhaps live, rock). I am going to get used media from a nearby lfs to jump start the cycle and will further reinforce it with some fritz turbo start 900. I am planning to keep the lights off for months, adding copepods all the while, to allow micro fauna to build up before the uglies start...I want to see if I can minimize them that way. When should I add soft corals? When the uglies end? (Not planning on adding hard corals to this setup).

I actually added corals after I think 4 months? The main thing is to keep your parameters stabilized.

 

[Danroo]

You got this. Make sure to make changes once a week and leave it alone. Coral not looking good? reduce the flow, wait for a week. Still no good? Maybe water chemistry. Change that, wait a week. Still no good? Maybe the lights are too weak/strong.

 

[keagan]

I actually added corals after I think 4 months? The main thing is to keep your parameters stabilized.

Imo anyone new to reef keeping should wait for their tanks to mature and/or use a lot of live rock. Just makes the learning curve less steep. Many ways to skin a cat though you can add corals day one if you research well enough to do everything right from day one. The more mature the tank is when you add coral the less testing you need to do, again IMO that makes it easier for beginners.

 

[kitti-fish]

I actually added corals after I think 4 months? The main thing is to keep your parameters stabilized.

Imo anyone new to reef keeping should wait for their tanks to mature and/or use a lot of live rock. Just makes the learning curve less steep. Many ways to skin a cat though you can add corals day one if you research well enough to do everything right from day one. The more mature the tank is when you add coral the less testing you need to do, again IMO that makes it easier for beginners.

I agree that’s how I killed my encrusting coral but all my other ones have survived and thrive but I did upgrade. Keeping nanos can be tricky for newcomers. I found that 35-50 gallons is a great starting point. I started with 13.5 and that was super difficult..

 

[keagan]

I agree that’s how I killed my encrusting coral but all my other ones have survived and thrive but I did upgrade. Keeping nanos can be tricky for newcomers. I found that 35-50 gallons is a great starting point. I started with 13.5 and that was super difficult..

I wish I took pictures of my original 20 gallon long it grew hair algae well and zoa's that's about it. I killed plenty of encrusting coral amongst others. I switched to a 150g it was soo much easier to keep stable. I had a 13.5 fluval tank at one point and the evap was nuts.

 

[docscorals]

I think you can be successful with most size tanks, it just depends how much attention you are willing to give it. I would definitely add copepods and love rock to help with the ugly phase. If you are focus on soft corals, you can definitely add them anytime. I would start with something a little cheaper to start. Maybe some basic Zoas. The tank doesn’t have to be cycled for coral (although it helps). You may need to feed to keep nutrients in the water for the coral, just don’t overdo it. A little goes a long way.

For a 10 gallon I would definitely get some type of ATO to stabilize your salinity.

 

[13rodo]

You got it. A few things going wrong is part of the experience. You've never actually failed until you quit :)

 

[petcellar]

There are pluses and minuses to small tanks. I've kept a little 8 gallon nano with softies and one hammer forever and it's basically no maintenance....

Top it off and do a water change every great once in a while. No dosing and everything grows great. Scrape the glass if I can't see inside anymore.

If it was more lps/sps heavy or had a fish load it would be a bit more challenging.

The thing about small tanks that makes them a little harder is that there is much less room for error with feeding, dosing etc due to the small water volume.

The advantage of small tanks is that you can fix almost any water parameter problem by changing a few gallons.

You'll have fun and you'll like it.....

The big reef with stony corals comes next .... :)

 

[mcarroll]

I have committed myself to setting up a saltwater tank...and boy am I scared I've had quite a bit of experience keeping and breeding freshwater fish, but my past experiences with saltwater were quite negative - the tanks were ugly and the corals and macroalgae did not thrive and typically died off (the fish and mobile inverts typically did fine). The fact saltwater is so expensive to set up and maintain does not help matters...I guess I am just looking for someone to tell me "you've got this!" and maybe give some advice to help ensure that happens. Thanks :)

You've got this!

But before you start, bone up your fundamentals with some heavy reading. Martin Moe's "Handbook.." is THE classic book for folks starting out. If you can read all the classic articles form Crag Bingman and Randy Holmes-Farley, they will open your eyes to what it takes to make stony corals EASY. It's a lot of reading, and I reommend reading the ones about dosing or about alkalinity and calcium more than once. I did.

Avoid most of the trendy trends in the hobby as most are experimental and have lower chances of success than what folks have been doing for decades before.

Don't rush the cycle – the natural method is still best. Don't rush anything else either. Don't chase test numbers like pH. Don't try making it a "low nutrient tank". Don't think you need to add macro algae. Don't think you need anything but a protein skimmer and live rock as the basis for the tank. It's not the only basis, but it's the simplest/most successful one.

Don't set the tank up for anything but your own purposes. If you really like corals, consider a coral only tank at first. If fish are your favorite thing, maybe consider starting with a FOWLR setup at first. If you really only like one coral or one fish, focus on that one coral or that one fish.

Don't copy anyone else's setup unless it really is identical to what you want....and even then be careful trying to clone a mature system. Remember it wasn't born mature and probably looked and acted VERY different when it was started. (More importantly, the reefkeeper probably looked and acted different as well. Every tank is a journey.)

The list of don'ts is long when you're starting out. Stick to the basics, the fundamentals.

Once you have your "sea legs" and the tank is on cruise control, THEN you can rare back and get creative with different things....if you still see that as valuable.

And now one question: What do you see as the failings of the last tank that caused the problems for your corals? Guessing is OK if you aren't sure.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

IMO saltwater tanks don't need to be that expensive at all, I run several tanks with no filtration no dosing and no fancy equipment. It just comes down to knowledge.

However, I did see your separate thread about starting colony of rainbow fish, which I think is not going to be easy and perhaps not possible. Everything I read online about this fish tells me it can't be done in a small 10 gallon saltwater tank, so the odds are already against you. Its not how I would suggest to begin this hobby, but I wish you good luck.

 

[LordJoshaeus]

IMO saltwater tanks don't need to be that expensive at all, I run several tanks with no filtration no dosing and no fancy equipment. It just comes down to knowledge.

However, I did see your separate thread about starting colony of rainbow fish, which I think is not going to be easy and perhaps not possible. Everything I read online about this fish tells me it can't be done in a small 10 gallon saltwater tank, so the odds are already against you. Its not how I would suggest to begin this hobby, but I wish you good luck.

Why not? They're only an inch or so long as adults, so put together they have very little bioload. I was going to collect their eggs in a spawning mop and hatch them elsewhere. The species is euryhaline and is found in water up to 40 ppt in the wild, so salinity shouldn't be a problem. I didn't read anything about this species being aggressive to anything...

As for everyone else's thoughts...this is a lot to take in at once. Will need to chew on this for a while...

 

[Fish Fan]

The species is euryhaline and is found in water up to 40 ppt in the wild, so salinity shouldn't be a problem.

My concern, again, is with the salinity. While these fish can handle up to 40 ppt, that's simply far higher than any aquarium keeper would maintain, and likely not good for the fish long-term.

I did a quick search, and it looks like most people are keeping these fish in a brackish environment with a salinity of about 1.002 to 1.017 SG, and that's going to be too low for softies and other typical marine critters.

I think you need to run the tank like a brackish water tank for these fish, and then embrace the few plants and other things that can live in brackish conditions. Or, consider running a more typical full marine tank, but go with different fish.