Feel like quitting 2 years almost no growth please help sps dominate

Stoney

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Yeah, it was more of a general observation of the overall trend of the ones that are growing (the opposite would be if there were a few frags at the very top of the rockwork that were growing up/branching). From what I see... next to the slimer, some branches are popping from that one pinkish/neon green frag, orange hasn't encrusted (are those thicker branches new growth?), bonsai looking one encrusted, a few branches (is that new growth?). When were they put in compared to the rest?

And then finally... since they are different types, maybe where one type is stunted, the other thrived - but again, since ALL the ones receiving highest light seem stunted, just food for thought.
Definitely a good observation. Genuinely hope lighting is the issue, so much easier to fix than remounting everything. I'm just a little skeptical because of the rampant encrusting and the fact that I've seen tanks with very similar lighting and solid growth in even higher par. Fishofhex also uses XR15's with a couple T5's and has excellent growth in colonies up to 6-700 par. He has a 12 hour photoperiod and a 1 hour each ramp up/down. I believe he uses a seneye to measure par if that's relevant.

Another reason I think the issue is at least partially due to the stems is an overgrown frag rack of mine. Everything is completely encrusted onto the rack and touching its neighbor. Got all kinds of frags (oregon tort, pink floyd, pikachu, strawberry shortcake, pc rainbow, SCOP, etc). Coincidentally, the only two frags that have started branching are a wwc yellow tip and a birdsnest, which appear to be the only two species that Ryan is getting significant branching growth from. Everything else encrusts rapidly until it touches its neighbors and then just stagnates. I occasionally snip the branches and remount them so they don't kill each other, only to have them repeat the same process and still show no signs of branching. Par is ~250 throughout the whole rack measured with an MQ200. I know, not the best par meter for blues, but it shouldn't be more than ~30% off. Point is its pretty unlikely that I have too much light on this rack and I'm getting shockingly similar results as OP.
 
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StatelineReefer

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They are not touching each other yet , so you think they can “feel” each other close ? To one another ? Is there any scientific evidence supporting this ? I mean yes they are close but not physically touching each other
I'm not sure if anyone has answered this yet, but each polyp in a SPS coral has thousands of chemoreceptors that can detect the 'scent' of other corals in the water. Aggressive corals will try to shade or even grow towards another coral, and at night unleash mesenterial filaments to strip the flesh from a neighbor who is too close. Most, SPS however, will just either grow away from a rival, or base out heavily to maximize 'living real estate'.
 

ap7x

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Definitely a good observation. Genuinely hope lighting is the issue, so much easier to fix than remounting everything. I'm just a little skeptical because of the rampant encrusting and the fact that I've seen tanks with very similar lighting and solid growth in even higher par. Fishofhex also uses XR15's with a couple T5's and has excellent growth in colonies up to 6-700 par. He has a 12 hour photoperiod and a 1 hour each ramp up/down. I believe he uses a seneye to measure par if that's relevant.
Yeah it's definitely a puzzling situation lol. Couple questions from me would be...

1) do frags and colonies react differently to that level of high par (where one can stunt, while other thrives)? edit: Well, I think answer depends more on #2 question below...
2) the 6-700 par - people already touched on MH vs LED par, but even within just LEDs... TANK A: 700 par of 100% all channels (blues and whites/r/g) or different T5 bulbs vs TANK B: more blue tuned 6-700 par... is TANK B getting "more" light than TANK A because of blue bias, even if the actual par numbers are same?

Another reason I think the issue is at least partially due to the stems is an overgrown frag rack of mine. Everything is completely encrusted onto the rack and touching its neighbor. Got all kinds of frags (oregon tort, pink floyd, pikachu, strawberry shortcake, pc rainbow, SCOP, etc). Coincidentally, the only two frags that have started branching are a wwc yellow tip and a birdsnest, which appear to be the only two species that Ryan is getting significant branching growth from. Everything else encrusts rapidly until it touches its neighbors and then just stagnates. I occasionally snip the branches and remount them so they don't kill each other, only to have them repeat the same process and still show no signs of branching. Par is ~250 throughout the whole rack measured with an MQ200. I know, not the best par meter for blues, but it shouldn't be more than ~30% off. Point is its pretty unlikely that I have too much light on this rack and I'm getting shockingly similar results as OP.
Very helpful! Although from pics, generally none really seem to be touching atm (Ryan can elaborate on that I guess)... at least a similar experience to compare.

To clarify... your frags on that rack only encrust but nothing branches (other than WWC and birdsnest)? But what branches are you snipping and remounting (unless you meant you.. cut off the encrusted parts)?
 

Rhyper

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I haven't seen anybody else mention it in this thread, but make sure you keep tracking your alkalinity uptake closely after any change you make, as that's the best indicator for coral growth in the short term. If you change something and your alkalinity suddenly starts to increase, that basically means your corals aren't growing as much.
 

SloppyWhenWet

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Interesting , never thought I could over par it with the set up I have I was thinking my lights where not power full enough , I did par the tank out middle of the scape I was hitting 500 seemed okay to me 220-250 sand bed 450-500 mid
I find SPS is best around 150-250 par. Ive used higher par but never gotten any results. CaRx is only way to dose in my book. Two part/kalk never worked well for me.
 
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Ryan Mansa

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Yeah it's definitely a puzzling situation lol. Couple questions from me would be...

1) do frags and colonies react differently to that level of high par (where one can stunt, while other thrives)? edit: Well, I think answer depends more on #2 question below...
2) the 6-700 par - people already touched on MH vs LED par, but even within just LEDs... TANK A: 700 par of 100% all channels (blues and whites/r/g) or different T5 bulbs vs TANK B: more blue tuned 6-700 par... is TANK B getting "more" light than TANK A because of blue bias, even if the actual par numbers are same?



Very helpful! Although from pics, generally none really seem to be touching atm (Ryan can elaborate on that I guess)... at least a similar experience to compare.

To clarify... your frags on that rack only encrust but nothing branches (other than WWC and birdsnest)? But what branches are you snipping and remounting (unless you meant you.. cut off the encrusted parts)?
Not a single one is touching each other
 
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Ryan Mansa

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I find SPS is best around 150-250 par. Ive used higher par but never gotten any results. CaRx is only way to dose in my book. Two part/kalk never worked well for me.
I can afford a calcium reactor but have no clue how to install it , hope that’s not embarrassing for me to say but I’ll buy one tonight if I have to just someone walk me through it on face time
 
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Ryan Mansa

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I haven't seen anybody else mention it in this thread, but make sure you keep tracking your alkalinity uptake closely after any change you make, as that's the best indicator for coral growth in the short term. If you change something and your alkalinity suddenly starts to increase, that basically means your corals aren't growing as much.
I test po4 and alk every morning for 2 years straight
 
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Ryan Mansa

Ryan Mansa

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I'm not sure if anyone has answered this yet, but each polyp in a SPS coral has thousands of chemoreceptors that can detect the 'scent' of other corals in the water. Aggressive corals will try to shade or even grow towards another coral, and at night unleash mesenterial filaments to strip the flesh from a neighbor who is too close. Most, SPS however, will just either grow away from a rival, or base out heavily to maximize 'living real estate'.
Nothing is touching each other I’ve seen many sps tanks like mine densely packed together if even seen sps glued to one another , watch when jake Adams goes to Evan lous home , this set up will work
 
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Stoney

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Yeah it's definitely a puzzling situation lol. Couple questions from me would be...

1) do frags and colonies react differently to that level of high par (where one can stunt, while other thrives)? edit: Well, I think answer depends more on #2 question below...
2) the 6-700 par - people already touched on MH vs LED par, but even within just LEDs... TANK A: 700 par of 100% all channels (blues and whites/r/g) or different T5 bulbs vs TANK B: more blue tuned 6-700 par... is TANK B getting "more" light than TANK A because of blue bias, even if the actual par numbers are same?



Very helpful! Although from pics, generally none really seem to be touching atm (Ryan can elaborate on that I guess)... at least a similar experience to compare.

To clarify... your frags on that rack only encrust but nothing branches (other than WWC and birdsnest)? But what branches are you snipping and remounting (unless you meant you.. cut off the encrusted parts)?
1) Yea I've always wondered if acros can handle excessive light if they're allowed to grow into it as opposed to just being placed there. But he does have frags starting out at 500 par.
2) That's a good point, I believe they're both running similar to AB+ spectrum. Fishofhex has blue, royal blue, uv, violet at 100, red/green at 15, and cool/warm white at 25. So should be pretty similar spectrums. Taken from this video:
Sorry I should've been more clear about that. My wild theory is that most acros need to encrust to a certain size before they begin to branch. In my case, they can't encrust because they run into each other. In OP's case, they can't encrust because they have to grow down the stem in complete darkness. Either way, they can't encrust to that critical size required or preferred to start branching. Out of everything in my tank, the only exceptions to that rule are the yellow tip, birdsnest, and hawkins echinata. Everything else encrusts to around 2-3" diameter before starting to branch.

I'm remounting the original branch, most don't form new ones.

@Ryan Mansa No need to please me, I'm a nobody. But if you don't notice any increase in alk consumption in the next few weeks, it'd take all of 5 minutes to test this. Should be fairly stress free to remount one or two test frags in the same spot after removing the stems.
 

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All I can say at this juncture is I have cut my flow in half literally , and lowered my lighting some to please the masses , I am very curious to get home see the condition of the tank , and do a alk check , I wonder if I had a dkh drop with the changes that might show me if it’s going well or not
I would encourage you to not think about it as cutting flow so much as optimizing it. You want velocity at the coral. Adjust your settings accordingly.

I can afford a calcium reactor but have no clue how to install it , hope that’s not embarrassing for me to say but I’ll buy one tonight if I have to just someone walk me through it on face time
I wouldn't bother with everything else going on. I didn't switch to a CaRx until I was dosing over 500ml of 2 part each day. Right now you won't want to take the pH hit, anyway, imo.
 
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Ryan Mansa

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Well I’m home from work guys and I turned the corner to my living room thinking I was going to see brown sand with the lack of flow or on happy corals but the tank looks better then it ever did , the PE is doubled , nothing looks upset EXCEPT something new is going on

some if not all the acros have the standard polyp but why do they have tongues in the middle now , most of them are sticking out this odd tongue looking thing trough the middle of the “flower” like 1 mil long , they almost look like millies now , is that normal ? , testing alk and power now as well I have my morning numbers I know what they should be at 6pm and 6 am I have this longed for years now it’s my night and morning ritual
 
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Ryan Mansa

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Tested I know it’s early but same results for the past year , never much different , alk is always 8.4 -8.8 po4 always .05-.11

F3EED97B-129E-41D5-BDE8-0F441A5EFFA7.jpeg
 
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Ryan Mansa

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The flatworm stop is for coral growth not for issues I see a lot of Europeans do it , the pellets are on 2 turns auto feeder , small piece of nori in am 1 cube of frozen in pm the liquid coral foods I gave up on , and the new ab+ that everyone rants about my corals reacted extremely negatively too
Acropower is 10 ml nightly flatworm stop is 2 ml , coral colors are 1.5ml daily

83D566B2-3C64-44DA-8726-800A8B1E1D0F.jpeg
 
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Chaswood79

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The flatworm stop is for coral growth not for issues I see a lot of Europeans do it , the pellets are on 2 turns auto feeder , small piece of nori in am 1 cube of frozen in pm the liquid coral foods I gave up on , and the new ab+ that everyone rants about my corals reacted extremely negatively too
Acropower is 10 ml nightly flatworm stop is 2 ml , coral colors are 1.5ml daily

83D566B2-3C64-44DA-8726-800A8B1E1D0F.jpeg
Similar to my method. I have a 50 gallon cube that I dose 2mls of flatworm stop for coral vitality as well. I don’t do pellets but I do feed 3 cubes of frozen, 1 sheet of nori, and 20 mls of the AB+ per day. My po4 fluctuates between 0.10 and 0.25 but that’s what works for me.
 
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Ryan Mansa

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Similar to my method. I have a 50 gallon cube that I dose 2mls of flatworm stop for coral vitality as well. I don’t do pellets but I do feed 3 cubes of frozen, 1 sheet of nori, and 20 mls of the AB+ per day. My po4 fluctuates between 0.10 and 0.25 but that’s what works for me.
I was super excited to try the new ab+ idk why all my corals shriveled and looked very upset (who knows if they even where or not but they all looked as if you touched them with your fingers when working in the tank by accident ) and it shot my po4 to .20 and that was only on 10ml I tired it for 1 week and I didn’t want to continue, how do your corals react when you put that in ?
 

Chaswood79

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I was super excited to try the new ab+ idk why all my corals shriveled and looked very upset (who knows if they even where or not but they all looked as if you touched them with your fingers when working in the tank by accident ) and it shot my po4 to .20 and that was only on 10ml I tired it for 1 week and I didn’t want to continue, how do your corals react when you put that in ?
Polyps retract for a bit, but I haven’t seen any irritation or stress from it. I’ve seen a lot of recent growth progress, but idk if that’s from my elevated ph, ab+ or cloud coverage or all 3. I noticed new growth within a week after I added the cloud coverage but I can’t say for certain that’s what did it.
 
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Ryan Mansa

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Polyps retract for a bit, but I haven’t seen any irritation or stress from it. I’ve seen a lot of recent growth progress, but idk if that’s from my elevated ph, ab+ or cloud coverage or all 3. I noticed new growth within a week after I added the cloud coverage but I can’t say for certain that’s what did it.
Everything pulled in tight as well for me , I didn’t know If that was good or not , interesting on the cloud cover the ecotech rep today told me dont waste your time the best tanks in the world that we light don't use it , interesting statement
 

islander84

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I’m not an expert but I would assume it would be similar to a tree.... the harder the wind blows the denser the root ball and trunk.... Which in an acro would be more water flow creating a wider base to prepare the coral for the higher water flow....
 

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