Filter sock or no sock at all?

[Brady4000]

Hey all,

I am over changing my filter sock on my FOWLR. Anyone running no filter sock, no skimmer? I just have cheato.

Thoughts of removing the sock?

 

[outhouse]

I saw the reference to small water volumes, but no reference to what was considered small.

Just take it for what it means, unless your dumping a large amount of skimmer water into a very small tank, its not going to help a lot. We both stated it correctly earlier in the thread. It helps but the help is much smaller then most would assume.

 

[Brent Bohannon]

.isnt there some way i can have an awesome reef with absolutely no effort at all?

Yes, it's called hire someone to do the work or spend an insane amount of money on equipment. I chose the latter. Personally I stopped the filter socks because they just hold the crud, they don't eliminate it. Biopellets have been a game changer for me.

 

[Pistondog]

Skimmers don’t actually add any oxygen. It’s a myth. The only way it does it is by rippling the water surface on the outflow. Pointing a powerhead towards the surface does a much better job. https://www.thereeftank.com/threads/do-skimmers-produce-oxygen.127915/

Here's what Eric Bourneman wrote about oxygenation in reefkeeping a while back.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php

 

[Pistondog]

Hey all,

I am over changing my filter sock on my FOWLR. Anyone running no filter sock, no skimmer? I just have cheato.

Thoughts of removing the sock?

No sox, but a skimmer, and a refugium. The skimmer runs an air line plumbed outside for reducing co2, thus increasing ph. Also run ozone thru it occasionally.

 

[Timfish]

No filter socks, no skimmer, no cheato (or any other macro algae)

90 Gallon Mixed Reef


500 gallon (Calurpa in the refugium stopped growing around the 2nd year)


Mixed Reef started in 1997, 10-07-19


220 Rimless 450 view


Elvis (lost in hte recent freeze @ 27+ )


& 16 year old Naso (lost in the recent freeze @ 17+)


Old Sea Urchin


World's funniest fish


500 Sump


240 Sump, started in 1997

 

[blaxsun]

Yes, it's called hire someone to do the work or spend an insane amount of money on equipment.

Fake fish and rocks works, too.

 

[keithw283]

Who knows? you didnt give us a clue

lots of people, but you will have to do more water changes to compensate for the extra detritus

same as above

I use to run skimmers without socks and in my current build I'm running a sock with no skimmer. I feel like the socks do more and they are obviously way cheaper. The system is very new though with a very light bio load so I'll let you know in a few months when I have more fish and am feeding more. I'm not adding a skimmer until I think ineed one. I am running a fuge though. Just need to get the chaeto lol

 

[Goaway]

I meant it honestly. No criticism. Lazy noobs drive Zoa crazy more than anyone. There's nothing wrong with that.

We need more noobs. I love this post.
;Hilarious
Maybe I miss understood. I don't care.

I run 2 socks. Sometimes 2 are on sometimes it's just 1.

 

[Peace River]

Why would the cheato die without the sock?

It's not that socks or no socks would impact the health of the chaeto, however if the only means of mechanical filtration and removal of excess nutrients is chaeto, then that can be a concern if there is an issue with the chaeto.

 

[Brady4000]

No filter socks, no skimmer, no cheato (or any other macro algae)

90 Gallon Mixed Reef


500 gallon (Calurpa in the refugium stopped growing around the 2nd year)


Mixed Reef started in 1997, 10-07-19


220 Rimless 450 view


Elvis (lost in hte recent freeze @ 27+ )


& 16 year old Naso (lost in the recent freeze @ 17+)


Old Sea Urchin


World's funniest fish


500 Sump


240 Sump, started in 1997

May I ask what you think contributes to your success? Beautiful reefs by the way!! And home hah.

 

[Brady4000]

It's not that socks or no socks would impact the health of the chaeto, however if the only means of mechanical filtration and removal of excess nutrients is chaeto, then that can be a concern if there is an issue with the chaeto.

Oh I see. Yea Chaeto has been happy so far. Going on about a year ISH. I would say it’s a Chaeto gro giving me the success.

 

[Just John]

We need more noobs. I love this post.
;Hilarious
Maybe I miss understood. I don't care.

I run 2 socks. Sometimes 2 are on sometimes it's just 1.

Well I'm good with noobs. I am a noob.

 

[Goaway]

Well I'm good with noobs. I am a noob.

I still feel like one. Everyday I look at my display.

 

[Timfish]

May I ask what you think contributes to your success? Beautiful reefs by the way!! And home hah.

Thank you! They're my tanks but not my homes. In no particular order as they are all critical:

Thinking of a reef ssytem holisticly - what's best for the system should trump doing anything for any given animal in the system, this I believe has helped promote a more consistant equilibrium in my systems by reducing the fluctuations that can be caused by dosing stuff or changing things around to fix problems for a few corals.

Frequent small water changes, from the gitgo I always believed there were things we could not test for and water changes were the best way to reduce the risk of something building up in a system.

Simplicity - The guy who mentored me in the early 90s liked simplicity and redundancy. When I started my maintenance business in the mid 90s this was driven home pretty well seeing ssytems setup with all the bells and whistles but the owners were too busy to maintain everything.

Think "microbial" trumps all. In '97 I had a brief conversation with the director of infectious diseases of a local hospital. She made a comment about if good bacteria were thriving in the wrong place that was bad. We're getting closer but we're still a long way from understanding and being able to monitor the microbial processes in our reefs (See AquaBiomics' stuff). Research though is showing just how critical it is to have the right microbial processes to keep corals healthy.

 

[Brady4000]

@Timfish so you set all your systems up with no manual filtration or Refugs? And just do small frequent water changes? What do you consider small and frequent? 10% every few days? Would love to know the “Secret sauce“ your working with.

Also do you drop in Chemi pure elite?

 

[pseudorand]

Hey all,

I am over changing my filter sock on my FOWLR. Anyone running no filter sock, no skimmer? I just have cheato.

Thoughts of removing the sock?

How frequently do you change them? If it's not at least a few times a week, they may not be doing much anyway, per BRS.

I run a 120 with a 20 gal fuge and skimmer + biweekly 10% water changes. No filter socks. It's been almost two years, but the tank is quite happy now. Few sps and no sticks, but what has survived is thriving.

If you have algae problems, try this with all your old socks through.

 

[amazongb]

I've tried both with socks and without, and I found the balance of swapping socks out every other day to be beneficial. The problem most people have is waiting too long to swap socks until the they are crudded up and become a nitrate factory. Swapping out every other day serves two purposes - 1) not enough crud builds up and 2) they are easier to clean. A nice balance. The difference has been -10ppm nitrate reduction for me over a 3 month period. Also, I'm a running Triton and don't do water changes.. Nitrates are steady at 10ppm, P04 at .03 to .07.

 

[Brady4000]

How frequently do you change them? If it's not at least a few times a week, they may not be doing much anyway, per BRS.

I run a 120 with a 20 gal fuge and skimmer + biweekly 10% water changes. No filter socks. It's been almost two years, but the tank is quite happy now. Few sps and no sticks, but what has survived is thriving.

If you have algae problems, try this with all your old socks through.

I change them twice a week. I have about 15 socks I rotate through and wash with bleach

The rocks in the tank been white for almost a year now due to I only run dim blues. Only tank with algae is the Refug from the grow light.

I haven’t done a WC in about 4 months and not really planning on doing one.

Nothing is wrong with the tank. Just tryin to adjust. I had to leave for two weeks unexpected and was worried about the dumb sock being a nasty teabag. So got me wondering, I know others don’t use them. Let’s see what they do.

 

[Brady4000]

The difference has been -10ppm nitrate reduction for me over a 3 month period.

Thank! That’s super interesting. Questions what is that compared to. Changing socks out every three days?

 

[Timfish]

I don't use mechanical filtration on a regular basis. I have a huge diatom filter that I have used on a couple systems when I've suspected "Old Tank Syndrome" (See Paul B's comments). I do use sumps/refugiums but they're cryptic and are for sponges not algae. Water changes vary between ~5% and ~10% weekly (one small system is getting ~20% but only because it's easier to do a whole bucket than a partial bucket of water) and will include some algae removal if needed. (See this video and this video.) No secret sauce, corals, algae and sponges (and fungii too but there's not as much research avaialable on them) are all manipulating the microbial processes in reef systems. What I didn't know 20, 10 years ago but understand better now and am still learning is keeping herbivores that scour the rock to reduce algae and doing water changes to remove hydrophilic and refractory DOC helps corals promote the autotrophic microbial processes they prefer.