Filtration advice for a 40b

[Random Luminosity]

Hi all, long time lurker first time poster. Ive decided to jump into reefing and I recently picked up a 40 gallon breeder/stand/equipment bundle from FB that included an almost new Fluval 207 (the canister itself is unused, for some reason they just used the tubes with presumably another canister). I initially had planned on selling the 207 and using a Tidal 75 instead. But in the back of my head Im wondering if the 207 is enough for that tank (with the addition of a wavemaker or two for more flow). Would love to hear some opinions/pros/cons to my choice (no, not going to get a sump). Thanks!

 

[Revv65]

Hi all, long time lurker first time poster. Ive decided to jump into reefing and I recently picked up a 40 gallon breeder/stand/equipment bundle from FB that included an almost new Fluval 207 (the canister itself is unused, for some reason they just used the tubes with presumably another canister). I initially had planned on selling the 207 and using a Tidal 75 instead. But in the back of my head Im wondering if the 207 is enough for that tank (with the addition of a wavemaker or two for more flow). Would love to hear some opinions/pros/cons to my choice (no, not going to get a sump). Thanks!

Welcome! I started my 40g breeder with a Fluval 307. Cycling went without a hitch. You can tune these with the media that best suits your tank. The 207 is good to tanks up to 45g. I've never used a WaveMaker but more water movement (within reason) doesn't hurt at all. IMO, you can start with your 207 and stick with it. It will be better than the Tidal 75 in the long run. The filter and media availability for the 207 is very good and you can even make your own if you see fit. The drawback is it takes a little dedication and routine maintenance. Good luck! Rich

 

[brandon429]

Also important to planning, and unique to reefing:

If you install that canister, and run it empty with no media in it where it's just a big water pump, there's no loss of stability to your main reef-in fact there's a gain.

Reefing is opposite of freshwater care in interesting ways, filtration is one

Chemistry is one among many: in reefing, nitrite is neutral to the point we don't ever need to know it's measure, even for cycling if a reef display. Not owning the kit as a reefer saves you money. Ammonia is what burns animals in reefing, cycling is aimed at establishing ammonia control for the animals in the reef tank.

In freshwater, it's opposite unless we're talking cichlid tanks of high ph (both ammonia and nitrite can burn)

For typical home community fw setups and especially planted tanks, nitrite is a serious risk and ammonia isn't much risk at all. Inverted concerns

In freshwater, we deal with slick surfaces, polished round rocks usually unless it's the fancier aquascapes. Plant leaves are high surface area but they're slick compared to knurled real reef rock so in freshwater we're trained to pack as much media in a filter as possible, to support the slicks in the biosystem that really are lower surface area than even a tiny chunk of quality live rock.

Reefs by design overdo live rock surface area in the display: that's why an empty filter doesn't matter. There's three times the needed surface area for a high fish load, in every reef on this board.

A filter packed in media selects for billions of bacteria that require oxygen and produce gas+ added acid waste. That's a tax on the tank. Yes, they clear ammonia too: but your corals wanted it for food recent studies show. Reefs will tolerate canisters, pros use them for water movement and they do use them for targeted uptake of certain things like nitrate or po4

So during a power outage while you're away, after just short time in the stilled, locked canister the colony crashes due to no oxygen. When power comes on, you pump goo back into the reef that may have easily survived the wait were it not for the goo pump installed because we had never discussed opposites between freshwater and saltwater

your best bet in reefing is knowing what's required, what's a liability hidden, since everything is backwards on this side. The canister is ok to run but the money is misallocated for reefing, it would be better spent on true real coralline live rock from the pet store. Or two strong powerhead pumps instead.


Last pondering of the effects of packed canister filters on reef tanks:


if someone connects *6* heavily- packed canister filters, along the back wall, of any common 100 gallon reef tank and runs them a year, all science knows by that time they'll be fully 100% cycled and linked into the system


Linked how though

Optional, or linked requisite meaning the system dies without them







Optional link is the answer. In that same tank, we can uninstall all six huge packed canister filters immediately without any ramp down time and nothing happens.

They're neutral impact in reefing as helpful ammonia control, neither installing them nor removing them changed the fact the display had three times the amount of rocks we need in it.

Just like we can drive down the highway with four wheels, or, we could go triple-dually with 3x wheels and tires at each hub and STILL easily drive down the highway (but now at the expense of gas mileage, engine tranny wear, linkage wear etc)

There's tradeoffs in carrying functional but excessive wheels and tires on a car


There's tradeoffs, risks, with farming ten trillion more bacteria beyond what your tank needed to run the most fish you could fit in the tank anyway. Think about that angle as you buy reef things.

B

 

[exnisstech]

I have a 307 but when I set my 40gB up I decided to go with an aquaclear 110 hob. Its just easier for me to maintain. Swapping sponges is easy. If I need to run some gfo or carbon I can just toss a bag in. I think a canister has more options as far as being able to run different media. It can even be filled with rock rubble to increase your bio filter. I just wanted something easier. I added a Nero 5 (had one on the shelf ) on one end and run it pretty low.

 

[Tamberav]

I would use no mechanical filtration before I would put a canister on a reef.

Just not worth the headache in maintenance.

 

[Random Luminosity]

Also important to planning, and unique to reefing:

If you install that canister, and run it empty with no media in it where it's just a big water pump, there's no loss of stability to your main reef-in fact there's a gain.

Reefing is opposite of freshwater care in interesting ways, filtration is one

Chemistry is one among many: in reefing, nitrite is neutral to the point we don't ever need to know it's measure, even for cycling if a reef display. Not owning the kit as a reefer saves you money. Ammonia is what burns animals in reefing, cycling is aimed at establishing ammonia control for the animals in the reef tank.

In freshwater, it's opposite unless we're talking cichlid tanks of high ph (both ammonia and nitrite can burn)

For typical home community fw setups and especially planted tanks, nitrite is a serious risk and ammonia isn't much risk at all. Inverted concerns

In freshwater, we deal with slick surfaces, polished round rocks usually unless it's the fancier aquascapes. Plant leaves are high surface area but they're slick compared to knurled real reef rock so in freshwater we're trained to pack as much media in a filter as possible, to support the slicks in the biosystem that really are lower surface area than even a tiny chunk of quality live rock.

Reefs by design overdo live rock surface area in the display: that's why an empty filter doesn't matter. There's three times the needed surface area for a high fish load, in every reef on this board.

A filter packed in media selects for billions of bacteria that require oxygen and produce gas+ added acid waste. That's a tax on the tank. Yes, they clear ammonia too: but your corals wanted it for food recent studies show. Reefs will tolerate canisters, pros use them for water movement and they do use them for targeted uptake of certain things like nitrate or po4

So during a power outage while you're away, after just short time in the stilled, locked canister the colony crashes due to no oxygen. When power comes on, you pump goo back into the reef that may have easily survived the wait were it not for the goo pump installed because we had never discussed opposites between freshwater and saltwater

your best bet in reefing is knowing what's required, what's a liability hidden, since everything is backwards on this side. The canister is ok to run but the money is misallocated for reefing, it would be better spent on true real coralline live rock from the pet store. Or two strong powerhead pumps instead.


Last pondering of the effects of packed canister filters on reef tanks:


if someone connects *6* heavily- packed canister filters, along the back wall, of any common 100 gallon reef tank and runs them a year, all science knows by that time they'll be fully 100% cycled and linked into the system


Linked how though

Optional, or linked requisite meaning the system dies without them







Optional link is the answer. In that same tank, we can uninstall all six huge packed canister filters immediately without any ramp down time and nothing happens.

They're neutral impact in reefing as helpful ammonia control, neither installing them nor removing them changed the fact the display had three times the amount of rocks we need in it.

Just like we can drive down the highway with four wheels, or, we could go triple-dually with 3x wheels and tires at each hub and STILL easily drive down the highway (but now at the expense of gas mileage, engine tranny wear, linkage wear etc)

There's tradeoffs in carrying functional but excessive wheels and tires on a car


There's tradeoffs, risks, with farming ten trillion more bacteria beyond what your tank needed to run the most fish you could fit in the tank anyway. Think about that angle as you buy reef things.

B

Brandon, that was a fascinating read and I thank you for it. Ive not seen it described that way before. Let me ask a follow up: if the canister would be unneeded and funds best placed elsewhere, would that logic also apply to the HOB Tidal I am considering as well? Before now I had considered a filter a necessity (although I have seen some here that do not use one), especially as I do have some experience with FW. But it sounds like what you are saying is that the rock/sand filtration is more than enough to handle the filtration aspect. Or, alternatively, I am misunderstanding what you are saying and the problem with filtration is specific to the canister vs a HOB.

Either way, its interesting that the first two responses seem to be at odds with each other

 

[areefer01]

I have a 307 but when I set my 40gB up I decided to go with an aquaclear 110 hob. Its just easier for me to maintain. Swapping sponges is easy. If I need to run some gfo or carbon I can just toss a bag in. I think a canister has more options as far as being able to run different media. It can even be filled with rock rubble to increase your bio filter. I just wanted something easier. I added a Nero 5 (had one on the shelf ) on one end and run it pretty low.

Good points.

Also if there is ever a need to upgrade, and it hits us all at some point in time, the 40b can be put on a shelf and used for an observation or QT tank with a lot of the parts.

I merged two 29 gallon biocubes into a 40 breeder for a spell. Since there was more than enough rock and substrate I found a used CPR Bak Pak (skimmer) and threw that on. Was able to put the heater in there after removing the filter media they had and it worked great.

Still have it tucked away today in case of an emergency.

TL; DR good list and points. OP remember you can always repurpose, use, things you buy in emergency or observation or later QT.

Have a great day.

 

[exnisstech]

Either way, its interesting that the first two responses seem to be at odds with each other

Probably not really at odds just different opinions on methods. There are so many different ways to be successful in this hobby often there is no right or wrong but more what works for you.
I once had a member tell me that not running a skimmer was like having my fish living in a toilet.
Im pretty happy with my toilet lol

 

[Revv65]

Probably not really at odds just different opinions on methods. There are so many different ways to be successful in this hobby often there is no right or wrong but more what works for you.
I once had a member tell me that not running a skimmer was like having my fish living in a toilet.
Im pretty happy with my toilet lol

I guess I have a toilet too, that being said! Lol

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

personally I feel that a hob filter and canister are basically the same, I would not pay money to exchange one for the other, I would just use what I have on hand. The filter or canister on its own would likely provide insufficient filtration IMO, it would be much more efficient if paired with a hob skimmer. A mechanical filter is not that important on a salt tank, many folks don't even have any mechanical filtration at all.

But how much filtration you will need will depend on the bioload.

And get 2 wavemakers for that tank. My own 40 breeder has 2 gyres plus the return flow and I added another powerhead behind the rocks 2 weeks ago. I have no mechanical filtration at all (I don't use filter socks), only a protein skimmer and regular water changes are my main filtration

 

[Revv65]

Brandon, that was a fascinating read and I thank you for it. Ive not seen it described that way before. Let me ask a follow up: if the canister would be unneeded and funds best placed elsewhere, would that logic also apply to the HOB Tidal I am considering as well? Before now I had considered a filter a necessity (although I have seen some here that do not use one), especially as I do have some experience with FW. But it sounds like what you are saying is that the rock/sand filtration is more than enough to handle the filtration aspect. Or, alternatively, I am misunderstanding what you are saying and the problem with filtration is specific to the canister vs a HOB.

Either way, its interesting that the first two responses seem to be at odds with each other

Not at odds at all. I now have a 20 gal refugium instead of the canister. But you stated you weren't going to a sump system. Not everyone has the budget to dump a load of cash into a new reef set up.
Everyone here on this thread has brought up valid points and all are correct.

 

[Random Luminosity]

Not at odds at all. I now have a 20 gal refugium instead of the canister. But you stated you weren't going to a sump system. Not everyone has the budget to dump a load of cash into a new reef set up.
Everyone here on this thread has brought up valid points and all are correct.

maybe at odds was the wrong phrase, difference of opinions rather. And whats cool is that your last sentence sums it up, plenty of different opinions and methods and all can be successful. As a newbie Ive been struggling with coming to terms with that there isnt just one correct path and that Ill just have to pick one and make it work. Man Im really getting antsy to start this!

 

[Uncle99]

Your bio-filter is rock, your mechanical filter is your canister. Mechanical filtration is helpful in removing larger objects in the water column before they break down to be processed by your rock bio-filter friends.

But you do have to keep the sponge or filter floss clean to stay effective. I simply swap sponges every three days.

Works quite well with skimmer.