First reef tank...hiii...problems

[asome_one]

Alrighty guys, so! First post, new to yall. I am a rather active member of fishlore but I was recently referred by my lfs to R2R. As posts in my forum are normally limited to my freshwater tanks i figured why not give this a go.
Gonna start out with background for the tank then dive into the issues. Before continuing. I'm sorry for the length of this post.
So!
15gal fluval flex tank: 5 months operational: started with live rock: lomine 50watt coral light: Aquatic life 115 skimmer: standard 100w heater: running carbon: 100-10micron filter sponges in rear of tank: 50 micron filter sock for overflow: purigen: ATO: basic 15w grow light for fuge: Jebao Ow-10. Just a basic list of relevant components to the tank. Not all of them...just relevant.
Sump/fuge- 4gal tupperware that houses the chaeto, skimmer, filter sock, and heater.
I use salifert kits to test for nitrate and ammonia. Seachems kit for phosphate. And API master kit to double check previous levels or test other components. I do not test for specific elements like magnesium, calcium, etc. Haven't gotten that far.
Tank composition:
2 Darwin Ocellaris clown fish (the only fish). 5 nerite snails, about 10 dwarf ceriths, 1 emerald crab, and a couple of other snails I dont remember the name of.
corals: Xenia (growing strongly), Zoa's (also growing), GSP (recently added trying to get my crab to stop picking at).
I obtained all the cleaners due to a massive outbreak of bubble and green algae. I have not yet solved this issue and thus is why I'm here.
levels:
As I said I dont test for the more complex minerals in the water but my parameters for the basics are as follows
ph: 8.2 nitrate: 0-1.25 swings between water changes nitrite: 0 ammonia: 0 phosphate: .5
Cheif complaint:
I have a big problem with bubble algae and green algae. While these issues are standard in new tanks I have had a continuous issue for the past 3 months. I have tried to combat the issue with the introduction of the cleaner crew (first thing), carbon (second thing), and phosban (third thing).
I started feeding the clowns every other day with reef renzy nano. I also stopped target feeding my corals with reef roids. I do have a well-established population of pods. They are very prevalent and I see the full grown adults (1/4 inch) roaming the rock from time to time.
After water changes which are performed every week I see a brand new coating of bubble algae in massive amounts. Everything that I just siphoned off the rock is like haha....you thought (insert offensive word) and by the next day is growing completely back. I can clearly see the areas where the snails clean and that has generally kept the glass cleaned but the rocks are another story. They are much more jagged and the snails have a harder time cleaning out all the crevices.
I'm one to think okay my light is too bright...fine turn it down...algae still grows strongly on the sand...soooo....not the light intensity? I added some fresh sand and stirred up the old sand to see if I could bury it but nope the algae just came back through. While it has somewhat receded after adding the chemical methods it still can grow as thick as a 1/4 inch on parts of the rock.

Well, that's all I can think of right now. Hit me with it reef2reef, show me all my problems and help me fight this.
Only thing. I'm trying not to spend a ton more money on this tank unless absolutely necessary. Pics attached
Edit: last pic is of the clowns newly added. They have since grown and are showing their true darker black.

 

[BeejReef]

Welcome..

What kind of sand are you using? It seems to be blowing up onto your rocks?

Hard to figure why your phosphate is so high. Perhaps your rocks came from a very high phosphate system.
That can take some time to remedy. The P stays bound to the rocks and can release bound phosphate when you do a water change. Your nitrate is well within a good range.

Actually, with nitrate that low, your fuge will struggle to bring down phosphate. The algae needs both.

I wouldn't be overly concerned with the little hair algae or algae in the sand you've noted. You really don't want to let the bubble algae run away from you though.

With a very lightly stocked tank that is so accessible, you might lean towards pulling those rocks and really having at them with a wire brush and hydrogen peroxide. Another option would be to make a strong push towards getting phosphate below .1 with gfo or something like lanthanum chloride.

I'm not experienced with either, so do your homework.
A few hermit crabs may help dig into your algae on the jagged rocks.
Emeralds do a great job on bubble algae, but only the big ones are any good at removing the bb-sized bubbles. They're best at getting it when it's too small for you to notice. Remember, you're the captain of the CUC!

@brandon429 maintains a lot of threads about going elbow-deep in your reef and crushing undesirables!

 

[boostedbeast]

Ive battled bubble algae for a while and the only thing that works is to keep nutrients low and manually remove as much as possible. I try to suck them up with my siphon hose when doing water changes. Emerald crabs are hit or miss and may harm corals. Just watch out for dinos when nutrients are low. Good luck and battle on.

 

[brandon429]

here is a neat work link showing a similar tank getting forced to comply.

your unique angle is bubble algae, so the only change to this procedure is when your rocks are outside the tank getting cleaned, this time apply peroxide to the cleaned portions of the rock, where the bubble algae used to be, let sit then rinse off and put back. that one step alone should cut the regrowth largely, agreed some minor algae is normal for a reef and we're wanting imbalance in making a reef totally free of it. but we like it that way, so since your tank is small you might consider taking it apart and blasting it all clean like he did here, twice.

Nuvo 10 Crash?

Hi everybody, new member and my first post so I hope this is the right place; I need help with my nuvo 10 ASAP! To begin, this nuvo 10 was set up about 3 months ago, cycled and all (came over from freshwater so not that much of a newbie). Easy coral was not added until a month ago and fish 3...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[asome_one]

Alright so i'll respond in parts to the comments: thanks for them btw.

here is a neat work link showing a similar tank getting forced to comply.

your unique angle is bubble algae, so the only change to this procedure is when your rocks are outside the tank getting cleaned, this time apply peroxide to the cleaned portions of the rock, where the bubble algae used to be, let sit then rinse off and put back. that one step alone should cut the regrowth largely, agreed some minor algae is normal for a reef and we're wanting imbalance in making a reef totally free of it. but we like it that way, so since your tank is small you might consider taking it apart and blasting it all clean like he did here, twice.

Nuvo 10 Crash?

Hi everybody, new member and my first post so I hope this is the right place; I need help with my nuvo 10 ASAP! To begin, this nuvo 10 was set up about 3 months ago, cycled and all (came over from freshwater so not that much of a newbie). Easy coral was not added until a month ago and fish 3...

www.reef2reef.com

Reading through this post this guy had considerable death and loss in regards to coral and fish. This is not my case. Quite the opposite I have happy fish and growing corals. Wouldn't it be a bit dramatic to completely break the tank down and have to stress everything out by recycling the tank?

Ive battled bubble algae for a while and the only thing that works is to keep nutrients low and manually remove as much as possible. I try to suck them up with my siphon hose when doing water changes. Emerald crabs are hit or miss and may harm corals. Just watch out for dinos when nutrients are low. Good luck and battle on.

I also siphon em up. I was given the suggestion to attempt swapping the crab until I find one with a liking to bubble algae. Sorry I guess I need to buff up on my knowledge...low nutrients cause dinos? Cause I can feed more food to increase nitrates haha.

Welcome..

What kind of sand are you using? It seems to be blowing up onto your rocks?

Hard to figure why your phosphate is so high. Perhaps your rocks came from a very high phosphate system.
That can take some time to remedy. The P stays bound to the rocks and can release bound phosphate when you do a water change. Your nitrate is well within a good range.

Actually, with nitrate that low, your fuge will struggle to bring down phosphate. The algae needs both.

I wouldn't be overly concerned with the little hair algae or algae in the sand you've noted. You really don't want to let the bubble algae run away from you though.

With a very lightly stocked tank that is so accessible, you might lean towards pulling those rocks and really having at them with a wire brush and hydrogen peroxide. Another option would be to make a strong push towards getting phosphate below .1 with gfo or something like lanthanum chloride.

I'm not experienced with either, so do your homework.
A few hermit crabs may help dig into your algae on the jagged rocks.
Emeralds do a great job on bubble algae, but only the big ones are any good at removing the bb-sized bubbles. They're best at getting it when it's too small for you to notice. Remember, you're the captain of the CUC!

@brandon429 maintains a lot of threads about going elbow-deep in your reef and crushing undesirables!

Its just super naturals sand. Originally the powerhead blew some of the sand around but that last pic with sand on the rock is old and the sand has since settled and stayed where it was supposed to.
Originally I started this tank off with tap water treated with prime. I transitioned to an RODI unit at about the third week. Some people have suggested this being a reason my phosphates are higher.
Would raising the nitrate of the tank make sense? Try to shoot for a 2ppm by the end of a water change? I do have chaeto growth of about double every month.
I only worry about crashing a cycle by pulling rocks out. My Zoa has also begun growing from the frag onto the rock so then I'd have to pull the zoa off. The xenia is also attached. I could scrub the rocks without coral on them but I feel like what you guys are saying is it'll only be effective if i blast the whole tank clean.
I'll look into lanthanum chloride. Looks like GFO is rather similar to the seachem phosgaurd (phosban?) product I'm using. I may just have to step up the quantities used.

Again, thank yall for your responses. Definitely giving me more to consider.

 

[Orectolobidae]

I would just pluck the algae out

 

[brandon429]

consider these mostly uninvaded tanks moving homes, they're legit questions too regarding being harsh to the system above. we've done so many tanks now apparently its good not bad, never recycles, and is the key to keeping the oldest nano tanks in the world running. not that a new tank requires it, but the practice alone...gold. the ability to command the tank, gold.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

the point is you can run the system on a perfectly good running tank, as I do in the thread just to participate. I drained my whole 13 yr tank down to the air for 33 mins to show the power all systems have. no recycle. the day we lose a tank to a cycle I should be drummed out of digitown.

you may certainly leave the silt factor in the tank, many do. we just show alternate ways of controlling your invasion.

Above, it was advised to manage nutrients to restrict it. That can't be done correctly in a tank that has packed in waste where applicable, so we show how to reset that condition. its possible to run gfo above leaking detritus, but its inefficient. nobody has to run the full change out, but if you want to, its a fountain of youth move. The tank sparkles after a rip clean, and is hungry for feed input.

your corals hit a growth spurt bc you arent having to withhold feed in order lessen algae growth. knowing how to wield this type of control has strong benefit...thats about 4 yrs of no testing for ammonia and no recycling.

 

[reef lover]

#WelcometoR2R !

 

[BeejReef]

Alright so i'll respond in parts to the comments: thanks for them btw.


Reading through this post this guy had considerable death and loss in regards to coral and fish. This is not my case. Quite the opposite I have happy fish and growing corals. Wouldn't it be a bit dramatic to completely break the tank down and have to stress everything out by recycling the tank?



I also siphon em up. I was given the suggestion to attempt swapping the crab until I find one with a liking to bubble algae. Sorry I guess I need to buff up on my knowledge...low nutrients cause dinos? Cause I can feed more food to increase nitrates haha.



Its just super naturals sand. Originally the powerhead blew some of the sand around but that last pic with sand on the rock is old and the sand has since settled and stayed where it was supposed to.
Originally I started this tank off with tap water treated with prime. I transitioned to an RODI unit at about the third week. Some people have suggested this being a reason my phosphates are higher.
Would raising the nitrate of the tank make sense? Try to shoot for a 2ppm by the end of a water change? I do have chaeto growth of about double every month.
I only worry about crashing a cycle by pulling rocks out. My Zoa has also begun growing from the frag onto the rock so then I'd have to pull the zoa off. The xenia is also attached. I could scrub the rocks without coral on them but I feel like what you guys are saying is it'll only be effective if i blast the whole tank clean.
I'll look into lanthanum chloride. Looks like GFO is rather similar to the seachem phosgaurd (phosban?) product I'm using. I may just have to step up the quantities used.

Again, thank yall for your responses. Definitely giving me more to consider.

I wouldn't jump to pulling your rocks normally. Just seems like an opportunity to wipe it out before u the tank settled in and you're really loathe to disturb it. A zoa can come out of the water for 5 min w no issue. Just don't take a squirt to the eye! 5 or ten min won't recycle u.

All that said, no saying u have to. Just that u have the opportunity.

Sure you'll be successful with whatev approach. Yeah, u can dose N to get your fuge to better process P. Or stick to ur plan of gfo to drive P down.

Many options. Sounds like you've done your homework!

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

 

[asome_one]

okay guys i truly appreciate the responses and i have taken all suggestions to heart. The rip it apart option is becoming more....attractive. since tonight I had first. A main tank overflow. My overflow failed and water proceeded to pour from the main tank. Luckily, I was sitting at my computer right next to the tank and was able to shut things off before too much damage ensued. I had already purchased the supplies to build a larger overflow but wasn't planning on making it for a couple of days....alas, I've spent the last 2 hours cutting a cementing pvc instead of studying for midterm to ensure my sump has adequate flow. Im so glad I was sitting here I smelled burning plastic a couple of minutes after I shut things off and wouldnt you know water had spilled onto my light timer and the thing was overheating and on its merry way to start a fire. Absolutely was shorting out. I have drip loops on everything...drip loops dont really help an overflow...sooo...got real lucky tonight.
Other issue since I'm working on the tank late at night I'm always viewing the tank later. Soooo...theres green algae growing on top of my closed zoas and gsp. This was not something I thought possible. It was my understanding that green algae could not attach to these types of corals....I also thought that dips would not kill algae. So I can dip the coral in seachems reef dip, which is basically just idodine....but from what I understand this will not help the problem. I did not notice this as an issue when everything was open earlier today. Whatcha think?

 

[BeejReef]

Wow! Nice save on the tank overflow and fire prevention!

Don't worry, you didn't need to study for that midterm

Overflow failure is kind of uncommon. Was it clogged? Is it a drilled overflow or does it siphon over the back of the tank?
Check that your overflow drain doesn't end deep underwater in your sump. 2-3" is kinda standard. If the pipe runs too deep, on startup, sometimes the water attempting to drain won't be able to push the air out of the drain line.

Put up some pics of your new design here or in another post if you're unsure about your new one. You'll sleep better at night.

Looking back at your pics, it looks like you have just one overflow drain, right?
The thing is, you may have to live with a little gurgling. You can't really dial a single drain in perfectly because the flow from your return pump isn't an absolute constant. I don't know all the factors, but temperature, how much bend is in the hose, if there's any algae or sand on the intake... You get it perfectly tuned, a piece of algae that was on the pump finally gets sucked through, and it starts working 1% better. 3 hours later, the DT overflows.

Dunno about GSP. With Zoas, u can use hydrogen peroxide (if you can still get the plug out of the tank). Do a little search on here and you'll get a better explanation... but basically, so long as you stop short of pouring peroxide on/in the polyps, you can pretty well soak the plug and the coral stalks in peroxide while using a toothbrush/razorblade/paperclip to scrape away the algae. They'll be ticked for a few days.

 

[Reefnman2]

Welcome to R2R!!!

 

[asome_one]

Wow! Nice save on the tank overflow and fire prevention!

Don't worry, you didn't need to study for that midterm

Overflow failure is kind of uncommon. Was it clogged? Is it a drilled overflow or does it siphon over the back of the tank?
Check that your overflow drain doesn't end deep underwater in your sump. 2-3" is kinda standard. If the pipe runs too deep, on startup, sometimes the water attempting to drain won't be able to push the air out of the drain line.

Put up some pics of your new design here or in another post if you're unsure about your new one. You'll sleep better at night.

Looking back at your pics, it looks like you have just one overflow drain, right?
The thing is, you may have to live with a little gurgling. You can't really dial a single drain in perfectly because the flow from your return pump isn't an absolute constant. I don't know all the factors, but temperature, how much bend is in the hose, if there's any algae or sand on the intake... You get it perfectly tuned, a piece of algae that was on the pump finally gets sucked through, and it starts working 1% better. 3 hours later, the DT overflows.

Dunno about GSP. With Zoas, u can use hydrogen peroxide (if you can still get the plug out of the tank). Do a little search on here and you'll get a better explanation... but basically, so long as you stop short of pouring peroxide on/in the polyps, you can pretty well soak the plug and the coral stalks in peroxide while using a toothbrush/razorblade/paperclip to scrape away the algae. They'll be ****** for a few days.

I think it was just that i was using a half inch tube for the overflow and it really was struggling to keep up with the flow of the sump pump. I use the 1 inch pipe into a 2 inch pipe...i'll just attach a picture. For my other tanks but didnt want to take up so much space so I tried a simpler but similar design with 1/2 inch only pvc and, obviously, didnt workout. Since I upped the size to 1 inch everything seems much smoother and I tested and ensured that the larger overflow could handle the max output of the sump pump. Which it does so at the current lower setting it should be no issue.

The noise doesnt bother me my FW tanks are pushing close to 1000gph into their sump and so its always noisy in my rooms.

From what I've researched I feel like I should wait until I see the algae start to actively damage them. IE prevents them from opening or the like. I tried to pick off algae from my gsps and yea I think I killed like 25% of that frag. woops. Gonna get some finer tipped tweezers so i can do more...picky...heh...work.
After this water change things are looking more positive. Less bubble algae just coating every surface. So maybe were making progress here with the phosban and carbon.

Salty tank overflow.

My tried and true overflow design I use for my FW.

 

[BeejReef]

Cool, sorry for the remedial lesson. Didn't realize you were very experienced. I love that overflow design. Is it self-priming or do you have to kickstart it after any power down?

 

[asome_one]

Cool, sorry for the remedial lesson. Didn't realize you were very experienced. I love that overflow design. Is it self-priming or do you have to kickstart it after any power down?

Self prime after initial prime. And I've found it easiest to glue the 1 inch tube that goes into the 2 inch skimmer portion with pvc cement...cause the 2 inch skimmer tube likes to float.

 

[asome_one]

Picked up a marinedepot HOB overflow for piece of mind after one too many overflows. Been running for 2 weeks with no issues since. Really makes no sense. I run these overflows with so much flow going through them on my FW tanks. The only thing I can think of is because I'm only running maybe 120gph through the sump its too slow and lets air get lodged.
Also got myself a reactor that I plopped some carbon into. Green and bubble algae has become much less of an issue. Bubble algae is completely gone and theres minimal green algae.
The brown algae has now started its quest for power in the tank. Considering the green and bubble has gone Im sure the brown will go away soon enough too. Least the brown is just in the sand and not covering every surface.

My zoas have been closed up for a week. Took them out and tried to clean them with a soft toothbrush but that just damaged them...so i moved them to a lower light area and am hoping they recover in their own time.
GSP's have improved while the zoas have done worse so...idk what the deal is. We'll see what happens.

Considering another fish addition...got my eye on a panda goby. Along with some more various zoas. Trying to kickstart their spread to match the xenia spread.

Edit: maybe my tank is "too clean" now. Thoughts on reintroducing reef roids?