Fish Died in qt. Now what?

[Mariette]

Recent outbreak resulted in my 3 fish going into qt while Dt runs fallow. Fish treated w copper. Treatment ended 2 weeks ago. Lost a banded goby during copper. everyone else pulled through looking great. Coral beauty stopped eating a few days ago. Tried everything. Different kinds of nori, pellets, flakes, soak in garlic, w added vitamins, without ... no symptoms. Just stopped eating. Parameters tested all within range. Did routine water change yesterday. This morning, CB half dead. Reminding fish (yellowtale damsel, watchman goby) both acting and looking fine. What do I do now? Is it too early for another water change? I’ll be watching the other fish carefully for any issues. Thx

 

[OutsideBrian]

Water changes are almost never a bad idea. What was the outbreak?

 

[Lowell Lemon]

@HotRocks @4FordFamily @Humblefish
Someone needs your help and comfort as they work through the QT process.

Sorry for the fish loss. I stopped using chemicals & drugs for fish a long time ago due to not being able to get a handle on all the protocols with any real success. I use observation along with proper UV, filtration, protein skimming, and good nutrition in a stable mature aquarium. I am the wrong person to ask how to treat fish...but the individuals I referenced can help you through the process. Wish you well and I am sure one of them will be along soon with good advice.

 

[BestMomEver]

The three experts above can help.... good luck!

 

[4FordFamily]

Have you been monitoring ammonia with something like an ammonia alert badge?

What ailment did the fish have? If velvet, oftentimes before we treat the damage has already been done to their gills and they struggle even after treatment.

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks @4FordFamily @Humblefish
Someone needs your help and comfort as they work through the QT process.

Sorry for the fish loss. I stopped using chemicals & drugs for fish a long time ago due to not being able to get a handle on all the protocols with any real success. I use observation along with proper UV, filtration, protein skimming, and good nutrition in a stable mature aquarium. I am the wrong person to ask how to treat fish...but the individuals I referenced can help you through the process. Wish you well and I am sure one of them will be along soon with good advice.

Thanks @Lowell Lemon. Very nice post!

Have these fish been treated with anything other than copper?

Sometimes if there is something else present it can be suppressed but not eliminated by copper to the take hold post copper. Copper is an immunosuppressant so if there was something like Uronema or flukes present that was being harbored it can really take hold once copper is removed.

 

[Mariette]

Water changes are almost never a bad idea. What was the outbreak?

Velvet :(

 

[4FordFamily]

Velvet :(

Unfortunately, this explains it perhaps entirely.

I still wonder about ammonia, dwarf angels are very sensitive to it (which is why many thought they were copper sensitive for so long -- it was ammonia intolerance primarily at fault before we had biospira and a knowledge of starting a decent biofilter, IMO).

By the time we see a bunch of spots on a fish, the gills are often severely damaged. Methelyne blue baths are often used to provide relief to the gills but this alone doesn't undo all of the damage.

 

[Mariette]

Have you been monitoring ammonia with something like an ammonia alert badge?

What ailment did the fish have? If velvet, oftentimes before we treat the damage has already been done to their gills and they struggle even after treatment.

Not an ammonia badge but I have testers. 2 kinds. Been maintaining levels.

Long history w Velvet unfortunately. Got it in January. Treated in Dt w Medic by Polyplab. No casualties. All did well. 2 weeks after treatment ended, w no additions to tank, Velvet was back. Wrote to Polyplab. They said to retreat at double max dose. This time, it had no effect. So into qt and copper. Slow recovery. But appeared fine. I was optimistic. Now I’m afraid for my other 2 fish. Anything I can do for them?

 

[Mariette]

Unfortunately, this explains it perhaps entirely.

I still wonder about ammonia, dwarf angels are very sensitive to it (which is why many thought they were copper sensitive for so long -- it was ammonia intolerance primarily at fault before we had biospira and a knowledge of starting a decent biofilter, IMO).

By the time we see a bunch of spots on a fish, the gills are often severely damaged. Methelyne blue baths are often used to provide relief to the gills but this alone doesn't undo all of the damage.

See my above response to 4FordFamily for history w this fish and Velvet. I’m afraid you’re right. Damage was done. RIP to one of my favourite fish :(

 

[Mariette]

Thanks @Lowell Lemon. Very nice post!

Have these fish been treated with anything other than copper?

Sometimes if there is something else present it can be suppressed but not eliminated by copper to the take hold post copper. Copper is an immunosuppressant so if there was something like Uronema or flukes present that was being harbored it can really take hold once copper is removed.

No. Nothing but copper. Have had this fish for over a yr. no other illness has been in the tank since I’ve gad the CB. been fighting velvet since January. Appears to be a case of too little too late. Posted history above in response to 4FordFamily’s question.

This hobby is breaking my heart

 

[Mariette]

Unfortunately, this explains it perhaps entirely.

I still wonder about ammonia, dwarf angels are very sensitive to it (which is why many thought they were copper sensitive for so long -- it was ammonia intolerance primarily at fault before we had biospira and a knowledge of starting a decent biofilter, IMO).

By the time we see a bunch of spots on a fish, the gills are often severely damaged. Methelyne blue baths are often used to provide relief to the gills but this alone doesn't undo all of the damage.

I’ll add an ammonia badge to qt and Dt. Have been reluctant because I keep reading that they’re not reliable. But guess no harm if I do in ADDITION to regular water changes

 

[4FordFamily]

No. Nothing but copper. Have had this fish for over a yr. no other illness has been in the tank since I’ve gad the CB. been fighting velvet since January. Appears to be a case of too little too late. Posted history above in response to 4FordFamily’s question.

This hobby is breaking my heart

Sorry, hard lessons are just that. We have all learned them. Sorry for your troubles.

Regarding the ammonia badges, for what it’s worth they’ve been very reliable for us for quite some time in quarantine. The only reliable method I’ve found with copper present.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I’ll add an ammonia badge to qt and Dt. Have been reluctant because I keep reading that they’re not reliable. But guess no harm if I do in ADDITION to regular water changes

Ammonia badge is the most reliable method with copper present. Test kits will give false readings with copper. IME ammonia is a very probable cause for a fish to suddenly stop eating in QT, I’d do at least 50% change ASAP to hopefully try to help your angel if it’s still hanging in there...

 

[Mariette]

Ammonia badge is the most reliable method with copper present. Test kits will give false readings with copper. IME ammonia is a very probable cause for a fish to suddenly stop eating in QT, I’d do at least 50% change ASAP to hopefully try to help your angel if it’s still hanging in there...

But copper treatment ended over 2 weeks ago. Fish got transferred to sterile qt. No copper in this qt. No ammonia according to testing. Will get the badge anyway. I can’t take another loss and will do anything I can for my remaining 2 fish

 

[Mariette]

Sorry, hard lessons are just that. We have all learned them. Sorry for your troubles.

Regarding the ammonia badges, for what it’s worth they’ve been very reliable for us for quite some time in quarantine. The only reliable method I’ve found with copper present.

Guess it can’t hurt to add the badges. Getting really tired of lessons. And it’s the poor fish that pay the price. Ugh

 

[4FordFamily]

Guess it can’t hurt to add the badges. Getting really tired of lessons. And it’s the poor fish that pay the price. Ugh

You are right, on both fronts. Believe me I feel your pain.

In this case then, I’m leaning toward velvet being the biggest issue. The fish couldn’t cope with such a significantly reduced ability to breathe properly from velvet damage.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Guess it can’t hurt to add the badges. Getting really tired of lessons. And it’s the poor fish that pay the price. Ugh

@Humblefish is setting up a business to QT and treat the fish for customers....this might be an excellent way to restock your losses and avoid new ones!

 

[Mariette]

You are right, on both fronts. Believe me I feel your pain.

In this case then, I’m leaning toward velvet being the biggest issue. The fish couldn’t cope with such a significantly reduced ability to breathe properly from velvet damage.

CB showed more symptoms before treatment than my 2 remaining fish. Do you think they're Next?

 

[Mariette]

@Humblefish is setting up a business to QT and treat the fish for customers....this might be an excellent way to restock your losses and avoid new ones!

I would pay a stupid amount of money for such a service. But I live in Canada :(