Fish not well!

[MissCourtney]

Hey guys, so we got our QT up and running while we cycle the main tank.. last Sunday we got a tomini tang, an orchid dottyback, and a yellow wrasse in there. They were doing great, have been in the qt almost a week.
Added a little MacroBacter Clean on Wednesday.
Thursday night our levels were:
Ammonia 1ppm
Nitrite 0
Ph 8.0
Nitrate 0

Planned to do a partial water change today (saturday) as there is a little food waste in the bottom.

This morning the fish were acting super weird, we acclimated them into the second qt which was running and warm just incase, exact same salinity.
Once in the acclimating bucket wrasse went limp, tang laying on bottom breathing super fast.
They've been in the clean qt for about an hour. Still being weird, tang breathing super fast and struggling to get up right and swim. She is getting up better than when she first went into acclimation bucket..
Dottyback unaffected

Just tested and ammonia is looking like 2ppm....
Is it the ammonia?? Could the macro bacteria be harming them?
Google and the testing kit say ammonia isn't high until 4pp. So 1 going onto 2 shouldn't be killing them??
Please help

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I didn’t read all your post because the moment I saw your ammonia level I knew the answer. Some fish can tolerate ammonia up to 0.25. Ammonia of 2 is analogous to lethal injection for fish. You need to to an immediate 100 percent water change.

 

[MissCourtney]

I didn’t read all your post because the moment I saw your ammonia level I knew the answer. Some fish can tolerate ammonia up to 0.25. Ammonia of 2 is analogous to lethal injection for fish. You need to to an immediate 100 percent water change.

Luckily we had a clean second qt running and ready, my boyfriend instantly acclimated them to that tank and put them in.. they're already looking better.. wrasse is swimming and tang is starting to sit upright more..

You think they'll survive? I heard tangs can be sensitive

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

They might. Fish Gills can get ammonia burn. Only time will tell. No matter what type of tank you are running always have ammonia at zero, nitrite at zero and nitrate minimal (at or close to zero if you have corals). If you have a new tank and you need to cycle it fast buy bacteria in a bottle and overdose it. This will help cycle the tank fast so you don’t get the ammonia and nitrite spike.

 

[MissCourtney]

Update.. we put tomini tang into a fish net breeder box so she wasn't laying on the bottom on the tank, as she was having a hard time staying upright. Lastnight and all of today we haven't seen her lay down yet. She's remained up right. She's even lifted her tummy off the net a few times. Not swimming right yet but doing much better
Her breathing is MUCH better today not hyperventilating at all

 

[Tamberav]

*fingers crossed*

Glad you had another tank ready.

When you QT fish, you need to do frequent large water changes to keep ammonia very low and test it frequently. I don't see any reason to add Microbacter clean to a QT tank, I would avoid doing that.

 

[MissCourtney]

*fingers crossed*

Glad you had another tank ready.

When you QT fish, you need to do frequent large water changes to keep ammonia very low and test it frequently. I don't see any reason to add Microbacter clean to a QT tank, I would avoid doing that.

Yes we kept the second qt ready just as this is our first round of marine fish so wanted to have a backup, and very thankful we did!
The guy at our lfs encouraged us to add that to the qt to keep it clean and give good bacteria.. but I agree with you, and yes more frequent water changes is our big lesson here!!

 

[Sebastiancrab]

I would run some Poly Filter to pull out any possible ammonia given what has happened.

 

[MissCourtney]

I would run some Poly Filter to pull out any possible ammonia given what has happened.

Thanks! I will try that.. we did a 100% water change on the first tank that had the spike. So far levels are 0. Put one fish and a few little crabs in it today so we'll keep a super close eye on both tanks!!

 

[Tamberav]

Yes we kept the second qt ready just as this is our first round of marine fish so wanted to have a backup, and very thankful we did!
The guy at our lfs encouraged us to add that to the qt to keep it clean and give good bacteria.. but I agree with you, and yes more frequent water changes is our big lesson here!!

Nitrates and phosphates will not harm the fish so I wouldn't worry about the clean aspect other then to siphon out uneaten food during water changes.

That being said, adding bacteria is a good idea, however I would use Biospira instead of microbacter clean. It also works faster than many other competitors. It is specifically for cycling a tank, not for cleaning up anything. You do need a filter/sponge/rock or somewhere for the bacteria to hang out.

 

[MissCourtney]

Advice again please?
Checked the ammonia again today and it was at 1ppm in the tang's tank, and 0.5ppm in the other tank with crabs etc, did at least a 50% water change in both tanks... waited ten minutes and checked ammonia again... It's STILL saying 1ppm and 0.5ppm ? How did it not change with a significant water change?

 

[Sebastiancrab]

What test kit are you using?

 

[MissCourtney]

What test kit are you using?

API Marine Salt Water master test kit
The 2 part Ammonia test

 

[Sebastiancrab]

I don't trust API test kits. Suggest you purchase Salifert or Red Sea. They are easier to read too.
Do you have Seachem Prime or did you purchase the Poly Filter? Prime will bind ammonia for 48 hours only. The Poly Filter will continue to pull it out of the water until it turns very dark.

Poly Filter Aquarium Filter

The POLY-FILTER is for filtering and purifying both fresh and salt water aquariums. It is a formulation of a special patented material bonded to a synthetic matrix. By means of a unique proprietary process, the POLY-FILTER is made impervious to salt and is also organic loving to certain...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[MissCourtney]

I don't trust API test kits. Suggest you purchase Salifert or Red Sea. They are easier to read too.
Do you have Seachem Prime or did you purchase the Poly Filter? Prime will bind ammonia for 48 hours only. The Poly Filter will continue to pull it out of the water until it turns very dark.

Poly Filter Aquarium Filter

The POLY-FILTER is for filtering and purifying both fresh and salt water aquariums. It is a formulation of a special patented material bonded to a synthetic matrix. By means of a unique proprietary process, the POLY-FILTER is made impervious to salt and is also organic loving to certain...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Yes Im starting to wonder about this API kit ... I think well look into one of the ones you suggested...
We do have the seachem prime and did dose the tank, will continue to do that as per instructions, and purchasing the poly filter as we speak!

 

[All_talk]

Did you cycle your QT tanks? Sounds like they are clean and sterile? You should read up on the nitrogen cycle, but here are some basics that can help you now.

Fish produce ammonia as waist and you need a population of several different bacteria to process that waist through the cycle to nitrate, a sterile tank has no bacteria. Adding bottled bacteria will not substitute for a completed cycle, but it can help speed it up. The bacteria need time to populate on the surfaces in the tank, it takes weeks at a minimum.

Since you don't have the required bacteria you are going to have to manage the ammonia levels through water changes and additives (like Prime, Poly Filter or others). I would test your ammonia and nitrite levels daily and find a water change interval that keeps the levels VERY low. API test kits should be adequate for right now (better than nothing), but as others have said, look into higher quality ones.

You are kind of caught in a bad spot, normally you would cycle a tank without fish and the elevated ammonia and nitrite levels would grow the bacteria more quickly. But you already have fish and the lower levels required to keep them alive will slow the bacteria growth significantly. This means you are going to have to manage the levels for a longer time.

 

[MissCourtney]

Did you cycle your QT tanks? Sounds like they are clean and sterile? You should read up on the nitrogen cycle, but here are some basics that can help you now.

Fish produce ammonia as waist and you need a population of several different bacteria to process that waist through the cycle to nitrate, a sterile tank has no bacteria. Adding bottled bacteria will not substitute for a completed cycle, but it can help speed it up. The bacteria need time to populate on the surfaces in the tank, it takes weeks at a minimum.

Since you don't have the required bacteria you are going to have to manage the ammonia levels through water changes and additives (like Prime, Poly Filter or others). I would test your ammonia and nitrite levels daily and find a water change interval that keeps the levels VERY low. API test kits should be adequate for right now (better than nothing), but as others have said, look into higher quality ones.

You are kind of caught in a bad spot, normally you would cycle a tank without fish and the elevated ammonia and nitrite levels would grow the bacteria more quickly. But you already have fish and the lower levels required to keep them alive will slow the bacteria growth significantly. This means you are going to have to manage the levels for a longer time.

We have the main DT in cycle right now, given how it takes even with the bacteria to speed it up, we thought it would be okay to get a few fish and begin their long QT process at the same time.. figured the DT would be ready when their quarantine is over..

Do you usually cycle a QT? I was under the impression you dont, since QT usually doesnt have rock or sand or anything for ich/velvet etc to grow/attach to...I thought it's supposed to be a more sterile tank?
Therefore no our QT is not cycled. We are trying to manage the ammonia with water changes and Prime, however we did not expect it to jump so high and stay that high after a big water change! Using the Prime to keep it at bay for now, and have ordered the poly filters. Using the API test kit twice a day, keeping feeding minimum, water changes/prime on schedule same time daily..

I didn't expect QT to be this much stress, worry, and work! haha

 

[Cell]

What size tank is the QT?

 

[MissCourtney]

What size tank is the QT?

We have two running. 5gal and 20gal. the larger is the one which had the initial spike. theyve both been 100% water changed, and running below 1ppm ammonia now

 

[vabben]

We have the main DT in cycle right now, given how it takes even with the bacteria to speed it up, we thought it would be okay to get a few fish and begin their long QT process at the same time.. figured the DT would be ready when their quarantine is over..

Do you usually cycle a QT? I was under the impression you dont, since QT usually doesnt have rock or sand or anything for ich/velvet etc to grow/attach to...I thought it's supposed to be a more sterile tank?
Therefore no our QT is not cycled. We are trying to manage the ammonia with water changes and Prime, however we did not expect it to jump so high and stay that high after a big water change! Using the Prime to keep it at bay for now, and have ordered the poly filters. Using the API test kit twice a day, keeping feeding minimum, water changes/prime on schedule same time daily..

I didn't expect QT to be this much stress, worry, and work! haha

I would have recommended cycling your DT, with extra media in your sump. Once your DT is cycled, take the extra media and use it in your QT filter. This will make managing ammonia spikes much, much, easier.

I would recommend going out and buying the large bottle of Bio-Spira, a lot of times you can find it at Petco. This will help your QT tanks.