Fish Rapidly Dying -- Is It Velvet? Something else?

[tulsadad]

Hello. I am quite depressed today.

I am trying to figure out why my fish have all suddenly died (other than a remaining lone yellow tang who isn't looking good either).

Feeling very defeated as I thought I was on top of everything, and I am not sure how/if I should proceed.

I am hoping the people of reef2reef can help me see what I am missing/what I have done wrong.

Relevant Tank Information

• 200 gallons
• running for 2.5 months
• FOWLR
• I make my own RODI water and have verified TDS out from BRS unit is 0 TDS
• Red Sea Reef blue bucket salt mix
• params monitored and stable, tested with Apex/Trident and Hanna manually
  • ph: 8.1-8.3
  • salinity: 33ppt (I had thought 35ppt but realized my Neptune salinity probe was off when I compared against Hanna salinity and Tropic Marin Hydrometer -- however it has always been 33ppt)
  • temp: 79
  • nitrate: 2-8
  • phosphate: 0.05 - 0.12
  • alk: 8.5 (realize alk + calc + mag not as relevant for FOWLR but including for reference)
  • calc: 430
  • mag: 1320
  • ammonia + nitrite: 0ppm (have tested weekly post cycle, and now daily since fish started dying)
• fish stock, all juveniles
  • 2 clowns
  • 1 blue hippo tang
  • 1 yellow tang
  • 1 melanurus wrasse
  • 1 whitetail bristletooth
  • 1 longnose butterfly
• invert stock
  • 1 cleaner
  • 3 peppermint
  • 25 mixed snails: nassarius, trochus, cerith, turbo
  • 3 tiger conchs
  • thriving copepod population -- not sure if this is relevant
• filtration + maintenance
  • change filter socks 2x/week
  • run a 9430 DC Tunze skimmer
  • water change 10-25% weekly
• feeding
  • nori sheet daily
  • alternating mix of -- LRS reef frenzy, mysis, spirulina brine, TDO chromaboost
• lighting
  • four radion g6s
  • running LPS preset -- 5 hours max intensity of 8%, ramp up/down for total 9 hour light cycle
  • has been this way since the start
• cycle
  • Dr Tims, 2 weeks
  • Microbacter 7
  • copepods from AlgaeBarn

Timeline

1. cycle
2. add fish over approximately 5 weeks -- all seem healthy, swimming, voraciously eating, not pale (other than long nose)
3. add some inverts as I see detritus + diatoms + algae
4. no evidence of any issues beyond typical tank start up -- diatoms, some green film algae. was very minimal.
5. at this point there have been no changes for a few weeks.
6. everything seems fine and then...
7. add 4 turbo snails purchased from LiveAquaria.com on June 12th.
8. add 3 tiger conchs purchased from TopShelfAquatics on June 16th.
9. June 22nd -- long nose butterfly dies.
10. June 24 -- whitetail bristle tooth dies.
11. I leave for a work trip from June 25-June 29, which was very unfortunate timing but I could not avoid it.
12. I return home and blue tang, clowns, and melanurus dead.
13. Test ammonia + nitrite, zero ppm. Nitrate 8ppm.
14. Yellow tang only survivor, but his fins look ripped and he doesn't seem as healthy.
15. All snails, shrimp, conchs seem fine.

I do not quarantine my fish, perhaps this is a hard lesson that I should.
All fish were purchased from TSMAquatics, LFS (does a quarantine and I trust this was not the issue), DrReef. I was informed these were all pre-quarantined so I assumed I was safe. Also given the timeline of fish add -> fish death, it seems unlikely these were the problem?

Is it possible something got in through the turbo snails or conchs? What would be the most likely cause for fish dying over a week with no issues for inverts?

I am at a loss of what I have done wrong, what I should do better in the future, and what I should do in the immediate term.

If anyone has any ideas, I am desperate.

 

[W31Olds]

Tulsa, you need to supply more info about the behavior of your fish before they passed and a Video of the yellow and where did you get the last of your inverts?

 

[tulsadad]

Tulsa, you need to supply more info about the behavior of your fish before they passed and a Video of the yellow and where did you get the last of your inverts?

There was no observable change in fish that I saw. Swimming normally, eating normally, no observable spots on them. Other than the blue tang who went into hiding the day before I left for the work trip mentioned.

I did mention above but the last inverts were purchased from LiveAquaria and TopShelfAquatics.

I net livestock and add to tank, I do not pour in the bag water directly. It is still very possible some got mixed in though I suppose.

Yellow tang is currently sleeping with lights off but I can try to get a video tomorrow. He seemed to be swimming normally and ate when I fed.

 

[tulsadad]

His fins are ripped and he does seem to hide more maybe? But nothing like rubbing on rocks. I have a hard time determining if gill movement is normal or not.

 

[Catawba_Valley_Reef]

Were they swimming into the flow of the powerheads at all?

It is possible to pick up disease from inverts…can come in on the shell (ich tomonts for example).

The fact that it happened so fast seems like something velvet would do. The only other thing I could think of would be a bacterial bloom or something reducing the oxygen levels in the tank.

 

[tulsadad]

Were they swimming into the flow of the powerheads at all?

It is possible to pick up disease from inverts…can come in on the shell (ich tomonts for example).

The fact that it happened so fast seems like something velvet would do. The only other thing I could think of would be a bacterial bloom or something reducing the oxygen levels in the tank.

What would cause a sudden bacterial bloom given param stability? I hadn’t done my weekly water change before the first two fish died.

It’s also unfortunate I had the majority of them die while on this work trip, as I don’t have much observational data to go from. Other than the blue tang hiding. And my clowns were maybe more lethargic than usual.

 

[Fish Fan]

@tulsadad so sorry to hear about this! It can he hard and it can be heartbreaking for sure

I'm not an expert, but this seems like fish disease to me. Perhaps one of the R2R #fishmedic crew can offer some advice for moving forward.

Best of luck!

 

[tulsadad]

If it’s velvet — I just carry on as normal with no fish for 6-8 weeks and assume after that time it’s all dead? Is there a
way to diagnose velvet definitively?

I’m not sure what to do moving forward.

In the meantime I’m still able to add corals I would assume?

 

[Idech]

Once I added peppermint shrimp to my tank and accidentally poured the water from the bag in my tank. It killed most of my fish.

 

[Fish Fan]

If it’s velvet — I just carry on as normal with no fish for 6-8 weeks and assume after that time it’s all dead?

I’m not sure what to do moving forward.

I know this is an awful place to be, but try to be patient someone from the fish medic crew I'm sure will see this and offer some help. Yes, a fallow (fish-less) period would starve out the parasites.

 

[Fish Fan]

Are any of you guys available to help tonight?

@MnFish1
@vetteguy53081
@Jay Hemdal
@Sharkbait19
#fishmedic

Thanks in advance guys!

 

[tulsadad]

I know this is an awful place to be, but try to be patient someone from the fish medic crew I'm sure will see this and offer some help. Yes, a fallow (fish-less) period would starve out the parasites.

I’m trying not to give up on the hobby entirely lol. But yeah it’s a huge blow to morale.

Waiting 6-8 weeks without fish is doable, but it would be ideal if there’s a way to definitively diagnose velvet. Otherwise I’m worried it can happen again. Maybe there’s not a clean cut way to identify velvet?

So I was thinking in the meantime maybe I start adding corals while I wait out this presumed velvet population to die. And enjoy them in the meantime. I’m also not sure if that’s advisable/irresponsible either.

I’m quite lost on next steps.

 

[bluemon]

I’m trying not to give up on the hobby entirely lol. But yeah it’s a huge blow to morale.

Waiting 6-8 weeks without fish is doable, but it would be ideal if there’s a way to definitively diagnose velvet. Otherwise I’m worried it can happen again. Maybe there’s not a clean cut way to identify velvet?

So I was thinking in the meantime maybe I start adding corals while I wait out this presumed velvet population to die. And enjoy them in the meantime. I’m also not sure if that’s advisable/irresponsible either.

I’m quite lost on next steps.

Well good news is that even if you don’t know if it is velvet, there IS a way to prevent this from happening again.

Go fallow for 6 weeks, and QT all fish coming in.

I think it’s going to be impossible to diagnose 100% without any pictures of the fish in their final moments with you being on the trip, so best we can do is move on

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’m trying not to give up on the hobby entirely lol. But yeah it’s a huge blow to morale.

Waiting 6-8 weeks without fish is doable, but it would be ideal if there’s a way to definitively diagnose velvet. Otherwise I’m worried it can happen again. Maybe there’s not a clean cut way to identify velvet?

So I was thinking in the meantime maybe I start adding corals while I wait out this presumed velvet population to die. And enjoy them in the meantime. I’m also not sure if that’s advisable/irresponsible either.

I’m quite lost on next steps.

was there a change in type of water used?
Were any of the fish quarantined by You and how did you acclimate fish and for how long?
Were fish bought locally or shipped?

 

[tulsadad]

was there a change in type of water used?
Were any of the fish quarantined by You and how did you acclimate fish and for how long?
Were fish bought locally or shipped?

No change in water or salt.

Mentioned this stuff above but — fish purchased at local LFS, TSM, Dr Reefs. All allegedly quarantined first. I did not quarantine. However no fish added for a few weeks prior to the deaths.

Only change/livestock added was the snails and conchs from LiveAquaria and TopShelfAquatics. Everything (other than yellow tang) dead within 1.5 weeks.

 

[bluemon]

No change in water or salt.

Mentioned this stuff above but — fish purchased at local LFS, TSM, Dr Reefs. All allegedly quarantined first. I did not quarantine. However no fish added for a few weeks prior to the deaths.

Only change/livestock added was the snails and conchs from LiveAquaria and TopShelfAquatics. Everything (other than yellow tang) dead within 1.5 weeks.

I would not mix different sources of fish especially if one of the sources is your LFS.

When LFS say they QT, they rarely actually do the full thing, and just hold the fish in subtherapeutic levels of copper to suppress disease.

By introducing QT fish from TSM and Dr Reefs (assuming their QT was done correctly, which is a higher chance than LFS) to the fish from the LFS, it makes QT from the two online vendors pointless

 

[tulsadad]

I would not mix sources of fish especially if one of the sources is your LFS.

When LFS say they QT, they rarely actually do the full thing, and just hold the fish in subtherapeutic levels of copper to suppress disease.

By introducing QT fish from TSM and Dr Reefs (assuming their QT was done correctly, which is a higher chance than LFS) to the fish from the LFS, it makes QT from the two online vendors pointless

I understand the point you are making, but I had not added livestock from my LFS for 1.5 months prior to the deaths.

I do actually very much trust their QT process, but supposing the issue was from my LFS. Would it take 1.5 months to show up? It didn’t seem likely, but I’m a noob.

 

[bluemon]

I understand the point you are making, but I had not added livestock from my LFS for 1.5 months prior to the deaths.

I do actually very much trust their QT process, but supposing the issue was from my LFS. Would it take 1.5 months to show up? It didn’t seem likely, but I’m a noob.

Velvet most likely not, but ich could if there was a stressor event. Could lie “dormant” or unseen to the eye until parameters become a bit worse

 

[tulsadad]

Velvet most likely not, but ich could if there was a stressor event. Could lie “dormant” or unseen to the eye until parameters become a bit worse

If my parameters were all stable and “within range” (detailed in original post), does it make ich less probable?

At this point the likeliest culprit seemed like velvet from the inverts (or accidental water from the bag) added a week or so before the deaths.

 

[W31Olds]

The problem with inverts that I have noticed at my LFS and one of the online vendors I use that they have fish only systems and invert systems but invariably have a couple of fish in with the inverts. One of the reasons I QT everything and bought my last batch of inverts from reef cleaners. Post the video for the fish Medics. When you went on vacation did you have someone checking your Tank? Adding RODI, feeding, etc.?