Fishelss Cycle Questions

[brandon429]

Confused over nutrients

I am thoroughly confused now. I started a tank and let the cycle for 2 months before turning on the lights. Added some Chemipure to reduce the risk of algae and dosing microbarcter7. Now I have a dino outbreak due to my tank being too clean. So I will be removing the Chemi-pure and upping my...

www.reef2reef.com

we are careful about up front phosphate and nitrate control, it causes dinos/combo cyano issues in a very high degree of reefs starting with white rock.


true live rock is opposite, it suppresses tank growths, how many kp aquatics or TBS iive rock dino threads do you see comparatively.

starting with white rock controls your major hitchhikers, its enviro friendly and is what most people do nowadays. the best way to run them is chemical controls off, business on, water changing on, feeding on, 1 year's hand guiding is the requirement for starting dry. all po4 and nitrate affectors save for after year 1 or never. we encourage early light pigments and spotty growths, hand guide out the ones that might seem to add lots of quick mass, its a hands on event for a year.

 

[Mppp]

Here's an update on my fishless cycle. I want to start off by thanking @brandon429 for DMing with me and for the helpful posts in this thread and all over this forum. I'm just going to outline the whole cycle again.

• Day 1: Ammonium chloride dosed to 2 ppm, nitrites zero
• Day 3: no change, no additional ammonia
• Day 5: somehow ammonia seemed to increase from the dosed amount, it was showing 4 ppm - nitrites 2 ppm
• Day 7: Ammonia: 2-3 ppm - Nitrites: 3-4 ppm
• Day 10: ammonia was at zero, nitrites off the charts
• Days 11-13: no ammonia doses, nitrites off the charts. Dosed two bottles of Bio-Spira
• Day 14: ammonia at zero - nitrites at 1 ppm
• Day 15: ammonia and nitrites at zero - dosed ammonium chloride to 2 ppm
• Day 17: ammonia at zero - nitrites at 5+ - Reached out to @brandon429 via DM to discuss the nitrites and his content regarding nitrites not factoring into marine cycles and being less harmful to marine fish - after much discussion he assured me the tank was cycle. I did a 25% water change and let the tank turnover for about 2 hours. Tested the params and had zero ammonia and still 5+ nitrites. Taking his advice I headed the LFS and bought three Mono Fish, two Royal Grammas, and two cleaner shrimp. A total of about 6-7 inches of fish and the two shrimp. I acclimated them, and in the tank they went. I turned the tank lights on at this point too. Hydra 32s running at 50% acclimation for 30 days.
• Day 19 - today: I have five thriving fish and two shrimp. They are eating healthy, swimming, and appear to be enjoying life. Ammonia is at zero and nitrites are at zero.

* I believe my days are correct above, but there could be a day or two variance.

I dosed Aquavitro Seed on days 1-8 at the recommended dosage on the bottle. I slightly over dosed the Bio-Spira, my tank size called for 1.5 bottles, but I just went with two. I am a believer in Brandon's methodology regarding nitrites and the cycle as well as Bio-Spira.

I've been reading and reading about fishless cycling for weeks and keep running into Brandon's advice in different posts within this forum(I'm running Dr Tims one and only/ammonium drops). I'm where you were on your day 17 except not off the charts on Nitrites, API testing (day 18 officially myself) so just did a 20ish% water change and will check water again tomorrow morning (fish shipment coming in Saturday).

 

[BeaverLakeAndy]

In a matter of like 2-3 days the rocks have exploded in brown algae. I turned the lights down to about 50% power of what they were. Really want to get ahead of this before it becomes out of control, but not sure the best route for it. Is it diatoms?

One other thing, I literally cannot get my Red Sea Reefer 300 skimmer to produce any skimmate. Zero, zilch, nada. I've adjusted it a hundred times and can't get it to pull anything out of the water. Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

 

[brandon429]

I promise that is all good sign not bad, and your pull to be on top of it is exactly how I reef, just wanted you to know those pics are no alarm they're fine maturation.

pull one or two out and do your experimental will to it, rinse w saltwater n place back. do any number of rocks you want, there's nothing you can do to unseat them bacteria wise. if you rinsed them in tap water, they specifically would not lose bacteria though everyone in the public would agree they would. to save pure revolt you can rinse in saltwater lol

the specific action I would not do is veer away from any filtration standpoint for N and phosphate. Im 100% sure you will get dinos if those are stripped in this phase, everything that is growing is what you want. practicing hand guiding, rinse murder lol, cannot harm anything its why we can always fall back on it. mess with nitrate or phosphate directly, get dinos

 

[Mppp]

I've been reading and reading about fishless cycling for weeks and keep running into Brandon's advice in different posts within this forum(I'm running Dr Tims one and only/ammonium drops). I'm where you were on your day 17 except not off the charts on Nitrites, API testing (day 18 officially myself) so just did a 20ish% water change and will check water again tomorrow morning (fish shipment coming in Saturday).

Well as expected w/ that small water change no real effect on nitrite levels so I'm going to roll dice as you did and keep fish order as scheduled to be received this weekend (I had already delayed it once as I've been staring at high nitrites for almost 2 weeks now). Wish me luck and I'll reply in a couple of weeks on progress of fish.

 

[BeaverLakeAndy]

Well as expected w/ that small water change no real effect on nitrite levels so I'm going to roll dice as you did and keep fish order as scheduled to be received this weekend (I had already delayed it once as I've been staring at high nitrites for almost 2 weeks now). Wish me luck and I'll reply in a couple of weeks on progress of fish.

Do it. All five of my fish are loving life right now. Shrimp and crabs are happy too. I have four more fish, ten more crabs, and ten snails arriving Friday. My nitrites zeroed out early last week and have not risen back up. My nitrates are starting to fall too.

I'm a firm believer in nitrites not factoring in for marine fish after this.

 

[BeaverLakeAndy]

I've also got four bottles of 5280 Copepods arriving Friday too.

 

[BeaverLakeAndy]

Just another update. I've lost my long tentacle purple anemone and a Blue Tang.

The anemone was doing awesome, then woke up a couple days ago and it was stuck on the powerhead with its tentacles chopped up. I'm assuming it tried to move and got caught in a current and sucked in.

The Blue tang arrived super small, much smaller than I expected. It lived three days and also found it stuck on the same exact powerhead.

I don't think these deaths are a result of water parameters as they are all still perfect. The one thing in common is these deaths occurred the day after a 20% water change.

All remaining fish, two Royal Grammas, two Premium Onxy Picasso Clownfish, three Mono Fish, and a Powder Brown Tang are thriving along with the crabs, snails, and Torch coral.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Might you be getting a large sponge and carving it out to make a ring/shield of some sort to keep more animals from being sucked in? Just an idea. Sorry for your loss.

 

[BeaverLakeAndy]

Might you be getting a large sponge and carving it out to make a ring/shield of some sort to keep more animals from being sucked in? Just an idea. Sorry for your loss.

Both powerheads are Tunze Turbelle NanoStream 6095, and both have full cages around them. I wonder if they just got too close and couldn't get away from the current. The Blue tang didn't actually get inside the cage, it was just stuck with suction to the side of it. The anemone on the other hand was getting sucked through the cage rows. Here's a pic of the powerhead. Do you think it still might need a foam pad around it?

 

[JumboShrimp]

I’ve never had that powerhead, but I have had some extremely powerful power heads of a different design (Sicce) and never had a problem. Anemones aside, I think only a sick fish should be in danger of being sucked against the powerhead, unless that Tunze creates one heck of a ‘vacuum’ effect.

 

[BeaverLakeAndy]

I’ve never had that powerhead, but I have had some extremely powerful power heads of a different design (Sicce) and never had a problem. Anemones aside, I think only a sick fish should be in danger of being sucked against the powerhead, unless that Tunze creates one heck of a ‘vacuum’ effect.

The powerheads run in inverse of each other, when one is at 100% the other is at 50% power. They are pretty strong at 100%, but no idea about this fish being sick. It showed no signs of being ill for three days, then I just found it stuck on the powerhead dead.

 

[BeaverLakeAndy]

Today is one month since I started this thread, so just wanted to give another update.

The diatoms are coming and going on the rocks. They hit hard, then went away almost completely, and are now sort of coming back, but not near as bad as the first time.

The fish are absolutely thriving. I now have 13 fish in the tank. A large Powder Brown Tang, three Mono fish, two Royal Grammas, two Premium Onyx Picasso Clownfish, three Lyretail Anthias, a Diamond Goby, and a Six Line Wrasse.

All corals and inverts are doing quite well also. Water parameters have completely stabilized with ideal params on everything but nitrates. Nitrates are still a little high, hovering around 20-40ppm.

As of right now this tank is thriving, and I couldn't be more pleased with the progress. Fingers crossed that it continues to do well and progress.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Any photo of the “Mono” fish, I don’t think I’m familiar with that one... but that all sounds great!

 

[BeaverLakeAndy]

Any photo of the “Mono” fish, I don’t think I’m familiar with that one... but that all sounds great!

Here ya go!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monodactylus_argenteus

https://www.liveaquaria.com/product/996/

 

[JumboShrimp]

Thanks, I learned something. Can’t say I’ve ever seen one in any of several LFSs around here (Central FL)

 

[BeaverLakeAndy]

Thanks, I learned something. Can’t say I’ve ever seen one in any of several LFSs around here (Central FL)

I purchased my three at my LFS in Omaha, NE. They had a tank full of them.

 

[BeaverLakeAndy]

Two month fish report here. The tank is now three months old, but has had fish for two months. I've still got a bunch of healthy fish, and even added a few more. I have 13 fish in this tank now. Three Lyretail Anthias, two Premium Onyx Picasso Clownfish, a Powder Brown Tang, three Mono Fish, a Diamond Goby, a Six Line Wrasse, and two Royal Grammas. The only fish that I've lost is the tiny Blue Tang that I found stuck on the powerhead the day after adding him.

Added a Rose Bubble Anemone and a couple coral frags. Everything is healthy and happy.

The diatoms have came and subsided twice now, and are on their way out I think. I've noticed this week a few spots of green algae on the rocks, so will start manually removing that.

All in all I'm very happy with the tank and progress, and am a firm believer in Brandon's methods for cycling a tank.

 

[brandon429]

Hey you really guided this tank into shape! a fine balance of allowance of expected new growths, and targeted removal when prompted from an accessible system, sharp sharp setup

 

[BeMoto]

Started to cycle tank about a week ago. I have old live rock and about 2" of live sand. Added a bottle of Fritz 9 into the tank to start things going.
A day later I added some ammonia chloride (Doctors Tims). I started out as directed and on the 3rd day my Nitrites and Nitrates where higher than I could test with my Red Sea test kits. My ammonia still was testing in the middle range. But wasn't going to dose any more ammonia until my nitrites and nitrates falls down.

How long should I wait befor considering a water change?

Kinda a rookie move on my part, I should have started a log on what I'm doing/testing daily. I guess I'll start doing that today as well.

Any thoughts and comments would be appreciated.

I'm in no rush to add anything to the tank. I was planning on cycling for 4 months. Planning on only adding a clean up crew during this time when algea starts to grow.