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Fishelss Cycle Questions

BeaverLakeAndy

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Hi everyone. I'm currently on day 13 of a fishless cycle using Aquavitro Seed and Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride. I dosed to 4 ppm ammonia on day one. It took until day 11 to have ammonia back to zero, and I have not dosed ammonia again due to off the chart nitrite readings. I've well been over 5 ppm nitrites for at least 4-5 days now, and I'm not seeing any signs of reduction. I'm wondering when the nitrites will start dropping so that I can dose ammonia again to 2 ppm.

Using the Dr. Tim's fishless cycle guide I know not to dose ammonia again until both ammonia and nitrite are below 1 ppm, but I am wondering what to do at this point with ammonia at zero and sky high nitrites.

125 gallon display with a total of 113 gallons of water volume.
PH: 8
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: eleventybillion or so
 
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tankstudy

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You'll want to do a water change and bring nitrites under 5ppm. When nitrites hit 5 ppm or greater it inhibits the growth of the bacteria therefore stalling/slowing your cycle greatly. You can find this information on Dr. Tim's site for trouble shooting his products and I recall seeing a video of him speaking about this recently as well if you want more specific info.

A 25% to 50% water change should be sufficient to bring your nitrites back down. Once you do the water change. Check your nitrite again. If it's less than 5 ppm, just wait till both ammonia and nitrite zero out and follow Dr. Tim's instructions again but go with a little less initial ammonia. I generally prefer no more than 2 ppm ammonia on the first round to avoid getting too much nitrite.
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

BeaverLakeAndy

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You'll want to do a water change and bring nitrites under 5ppm. When nitrites hit 5 ppm or greater it inhibits the growth of the bacteria therefore stalling/slowing your cycle greatly. You can find this information on Dr. Tim's site for trouble shooting his products and I recall seeing a video of him speaking about this recently as well if you want more specific info.

A 25% to 50% water change should be sufficient to bring your nitrites back down. Once you do the water change. Check your nitrite again. If it's less than 5 ppm, just wait till both ammonia and nitrite zero out and follow Dr. Tim's instructions again but go with a little less initial ammonia. I generally prefer no more than 2 ppm ammonia on the first round to avoid getting too much nitrite.
The above contradicts what the following quote says. This is where I am becoming a bit confused, there seems to be conflicting information on best practices concerning nitrite readings during the cycle.

You might want to read this thread that discusses this situation. Brandon was a great help to me: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cycling-readings.660889/

Also, if you want to speed this up, get a bottle of Bio-Spira.
 
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tankstudy

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This contradicts what the following quote says. This is where I am becoming a bit confused, there seems to be conflicting information on best practices concerning nitrite readings during the cycle.
Since your using Dr. Tim's, I'd recommend following Dr. Tim's advice.

What your experiencing is a very common problem with all bottled bacteria products. Bottled bacteria require certain parameters to be met in order to function properly.
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

BeaverLakeAndy

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Since your using Dr. Tim's, I'd recommend following Dr. Tim's advice.

What your experiencing is a very common problem with all bottled bacteria products. Bottled bacteria require certain parameters to be met in order to function properly.
I'm only using Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride, the bottled bacteria is Aquavitro Seed, but I still see what you're saying.
 

S.Pepper

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The above contradicts what the following quote says. This is where I am becoming a bit confused, there seems to be conflicting information on best practices concerning nitrite readings during the cycle.
Each to their own. I followed what Brandon had to say to me, and my tank did beautifully. GL
 

Brew12

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I agree with adding Bio-spira. It seems to do a better job with nitrites than most bottled bacteria products. Or you can just wait, they will come down on their own.
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

BeaverLakeAndy

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tankstudy

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Each to their own. I followed what Brandon had to say to me, and my tank did beautifully. GL
Realistically you can leave the nitrite alone at 5 ppm but it'll take you several times longer for the nitrite to come down. It can be from 3 weeks to 3 months before it zeros out. It brings you close to the time frame of the shrimp cycling techniques.

Dr. Tim Havenoc explains bottled bacteria pretty well in detail in one of his MACNA or so videos. Most bacteria or all the bacteria products I've used pretty much work exactly like his. From my personal experience, as long as the bacteria is well stored, all the bottled bacteria brands work relatively the same. Some are just easier to obtain than others.

For those who are reading and are looking to cycle fast but are experiencing this issue, high nitrite, a water change needs to be done to bring those optimal growth parameters back. If you have a ton of time, you can just wait it out, however, the time frame can extend extremely far.

This is a common problem with bottled bacteria, so for those looking for a solution don't feel too bad. ;) Luckily it's a just a simple water change to fix it.
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

BeaverLakeAndy

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Cycle Update

Day 10: ammonia was at zero, nitrites off the charts
Days 11-13: no ammonia doses, nitrites off the charts. Dosed two bottles of Bio-Spira yesterday.
Day 14 (today): nitrites at 1 ppm

I've been reading a lot about how good Bio-Spira was, but was a little skeptical. I'm shocked that in 24 hours it dropped the nitrites like it did. I don't know what the nitrites were at as the test kit only goes to 5 ppm, so it dropped at least 4 ppm, but probably more. Hoping to dose ammonia again tomorrow if the nitrites are at zero.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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here is where you stand, on tuesday you were cycled. nitrites dont factor in reefing. I realize there are places that say they do, Im battling those places but with actual work links and some have been linked here. people want you to believe nitrite matters, so that you'll buy more bac.

The extra bottle bac you ordered is what Im trying to stop in the hobby, not that its bad but we've been led to simply buy more bac to remedy a tank that was already ready.


you should change water not due to nitrite, but due to algae fuel. change as much as you are willing to change, then add some stuff, you are cycled. send the bottle bac, back.
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

BeaverLakeAndy

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here is where you stand, on tuesday you were cycled. nitrites dont factor in reefing. I realize there are places that say they do, Im battling those places but with actual work links and some have been linked here. people want you to believe nitrite matters, so that you'll buy more bac.

The extra bottle bac you ordered is what Im trying to stop in the hobby, not that its bad but we've been led to simply buy more bac to remedy a tank that was already ready.


you should change water not due to nitrite, but due to algae fuel. change as much as you are willing to change, then add some stuff, you are cycled. send the bottle bac, back.
I plan on changing about 20-25% water this weekend. Then dose ammonia one more time and check parameters on Monday or Tuesday. Likely order some pre-quarantined fish next week.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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The extra verification undoes your water change but this isn’t harmful. Your tank is fully ready, it’s how they all start tanks for MACNA conventions on time, by knowing when things are ready. No further verification needed as it adds to your starting algae load. I do not mind if you re verify, it is the natural thing to do given all the information out there that says cycles can stall. Your nitrite will certainly not comply if you pack in more ammonia, so do an 80% water change if you insist on zapping ammonia again.
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

BeaverLakeAndy

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The extra verification undoes your water change but this isn’t harmful. Your tank is fully ready, it’s how they all start tanks for MACNA conventions on time, by knowing when things are ready. No further verification needed as it adds to your starting algae load. I do not mind if you re verify, it is the natural thing to do given all the information out there that says cycles can stall. Your nitrite will certainly not comply if you pack in more ammonia, so do an 80% water change if you insist on zapping ammonia again.
I don't insist on dosing ammonia again. I'll be the first to admit I'm somewhat out of the loop on cycling as its been a decade since I've cycled a saltwater tank. Do you recommend a water change and then go straight to a few fish?
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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I do recommend it only because you have paid for and used one day fish-in cycling products, but went extra mile and gave em two weeks to seat in place. Clearing 4 ppm of ammonia was a massive job, they’re ready. Biggest water change you are willing to do is the right move
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Just thought of something

if you begin with pre quarantined fish, $, and put them in a dry start system which is indeed disease free, you can’t stock corals or anything else it will break the disease protocol chain of ops

it needs to be huge massive water change, add corals and clean up crew, practice feeding and water changing while you build up a non boring tank, then you fallow eighty days and then add fish.
 

phatduckk

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I was in the same situation a few months ago & added a bottle of bio spira. The nitrites went to zero in a day or two.

Could be coincidence but that definitely worked for me. Also 4ppm is a lot. Everything I read suggested 2ppm (could be totally mistaken tho)
 
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