Fishless Cycle - Required reading prior to setting up any fish tank. Fresh or Salt

[LegoZ81]

Please read:
Using Household Ammonia for Humane Cycling of a Tank

Using fish to cycle is less than nice to the fish as ammonia burns and destroys this gills of the fish, also with fishless cycle with dry base rock you can prep the tank for a LARGE bioload and do all initial stocking at once, this can help prevent fish from developing territories prior to all fish being introduced.

 

[donalds fish]

Good call! Saltwater fish are expensive, and most of them come from the ocean. I always just use a chunk of shrimp or something that's already dead.

 

[beaslbob]

Please read:
Using Household Ammonia for Humane Cycling of a Tank

Using fish to cycle is less than nice to the fish as ammonia burns and destroys this gills of the fish, also with fishless cycle with dry base rock you can prep the tank for a LARGE bioload and do all initial stocking at once, this can help prevent fish from developing territories prior to all fish being introduced.

Unless you first setup the tank with fast growing thriving plant life (FW plants, marine macro algae).

Then what happens is the plant life consumes the ammonia directly preventing the ammonia spikes as the aerobic bacteria builds up.

Plus the plant life consumes carbon dioxide and returns oxygen further helping the fish.

so the fish experiences little to no stress.

my .02

 

[donalds fish]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty hard-headed sometimes: If there is any detectable amount of ammonia in the water column we are doing our fish wrong right? One could just as easily start with live plants and no fish, at least until conditions stabilized. If the plant is doing all of the ammonia consumption, won't it take longer for the tank to cycle? I ask purely out of curiosity, I've never tried cycling a tank with a plant in it. Most of my tanks have been seeded with mature substrate and/or filter media.

 

[beaslbob]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty hard-headed sometimes: If there is any detectable amount of ammonia in the water column we are doing our fish wrong right? One could just as easily start with live plants and no fish, at least until conditions stabilized. If the plant is doing all of the ammonia consumption, won't it take longer for the tank to cycle? I ask purely out of curiosity, I've never tried cycling a tank with a plant in it. Most of my tanks have been seeded with mature substrate and/or filter media.

Ok let's say it does take longer to establish bacteria consuming the ammonia with plants consuming the ammonia.

So What? oh:

As long as the fish are not stressed who cares?

Actually what happens is you get a nitrate spike which drops down after 3 weeks or so. So the cycle is changed from the bacteria drive ammonia->nitrIte->nitrate To just nitrate->0.

Plus the same things happens after the bacteria builds up. Say you overfeed or something goes bump in the night. Instead of the ammonia spikes and tank crashes all you get is a nitrAte spike. So there is much greated stability to tank operations.

Still just my .02

 

[grouse]

there seems to be some misconseption here ---- plants & or macro --DO NOT --- consume ammonia, ammona will burn & kill them in high consitrations however thay do consume the byproducts of ammonia created by arobic bacteria -- IE nitrates
this is the bennifit of adding macro to a cycle ---- lower nitrate levles after cycle

 

[Reef Breeders]

High concentrations? I dont believe that I have seen ammonia spike above 3 ppm. Plants like chaeto and caulerpa should be fine.

 

[donalds fish]

as long as we're not killing anything by doing what we're doing. i've always been a fan of ghost feeding and seeding with established rock/substrate.

 

[rygh]

Given the above comments, some fun science clarification is needed.

Algae can definitely consume ammonium (NH4). As can macro/plants. But note the "ium" in ammonium.
In fact, in consuming nitrate, they actually convert it to ammonium first.

Algae cannot consume ammonia (NH3) directly. And although I don't know how bad it would be for them,
I would guess high concentrations are not healthy.

Fish waste is ammonium. NH4.
Household ammonia is not. It is NH3.

In the water, some NH3 will convert to NH4. It reaches equilibrium based on pH levels. But it does take time.

IMO: Household ammonia will work, but might not really be the best method.

 

[holdyourlight]

rygh: what is the best method in your opinion? i will be cycling a new tank in the next weeks and want to try something new. last few times i've used household ammonia

Given the above comments, some fun science clarification is needed.

Algae can definitely consume ammonium (NH4). As can macro/plants. But note the "ium" in ammonium.
In fact, in consuming nitrate, they actually convert it to ammonium first.

Algae cannot consume ammonia (NH3) directly. And although I don't know how bad it would be for them,
I would guess high concentrations are not healthy.

Fish waste is ammonium. NH4.
Household ammonia is not. It is NH3.

In the water, some NH3 will convert to NH4. It reaches equilibrium based on pH levels. But it does take time.

IMO: Household ammonia will work, but might not really be the best method.

 

[steamer51]

Thanks for bringing this up. One of our members brought up at our club meeting this month that she keeps a five gallon bucket with a powerhead and sponge filter on hand to set up a quarantine tank when needed. With the use of household ammonia she can add large amounts to build up a large enough colony of bacteria to support the large fishes she buys and quarantines.

 

[rygh]

rygh: what is the best method in your opinion? i will be cycling a new tank in the next weeks and want to try something new. last few times i've used household ammonia

Total opinion of course: I prefer the old chopped frozen shrimp method.
Ammonia is probably better for cycling if you get pure ammonia, add the right amount, and if there is really no other life in the tank.
The big advantage is that it is faster and more controllable.

But for me, and many reefers, it is pretty common to add live rock before/during a cycle, and there is quite
a bit of life on there that you are best off keeping.
So going slow with shrimp seems safer, plus the the frozen shrimp add food for pods and other life in your live rock.

 

[beaslbob]

IMHO the best method is to consumer any ammonia (or ammonium) from the fish as it is being generated. Preventing any spike and stress to the fish.

Plants and algae do that.