Fix My Return Pump Problem

[d2mini]

My Vectra return pump is setup/run like a standard AC pump. In other words, I set it and forget it. I don't use any of the special functions. I don't even turn it off for feeding time. The problem I'm having is that the flow will stay consistent for several days, maybe even several weeks, then suddenly I'll wake up in the morning to find that the water is really high in my display, and low in my sump. Then if I correct for it by opening my drain valve a bit, eventually the flow will drop back down and now my overflow is making noise, my sump level is too high, my skimmer is overflowing and through all of this my salt levels change (too much ato). As you can imagine, it is quite annoying. I have a flow meter on my return (pump ---> tank) plumbing and it will change from an average of 3500 l/ph to 4000-4100 l/ph. That's a significant jump.

Went back and forth with ecotech for a while, recalibrated it, cleaned it, etc and they eventually sent whole new pump body. Seemed ok for a while (and the new pump seemed quite a bit more powerful, actually) but now it is happening again.

Does this have something to do with the pump? Or could there be something about my plumbing that would allow more water to flow up to the tank even though the power of the pump hasn't changed? I do have a Tee on the return line that sends some water to my refugium, but I never notice any change in water height in the fuge.

 

[Potatohead]

I'm not an expert on DC stuff but from what I understand the only way the flow rate can change is from either a head pressure change or the voltage being sent to the pump by the controller is changing.

You may not want to hear this but I would swap it out for an AC pump and try it for a couple weeks. You will know then if it is your plumbing or not.

 

[Crabs McJones]

My Vectra return pump is setup/run like a standard AC pump. In other words, I set it and forget it. I don't use any of the special functions. I don't even turn it off for feeding time. The problem I'm having is that the flow will stay consistent for several days, maybe even several weeks, then suddenly I'll wake up in the morning to find that the water is really high in my display, and low in my sump. Then if I correct for it by opening my drain valve a bit, eventually the flow will drop back down and now my overflow is making noise, my sump level is too high, my skimmer is overflowing and through all of this my salt levels change (too much ato). As you can imagine, it is quite annoying. I have a flow meter on my return (pump ---> tank) plumbing and it will change from an average of 3500 l/ph to 4000-4100 l/ph. That's a significant jump.

Went back and forth with ecotech for a while, recalibrated it, cleaned it, etc and they eventually sent whole new pump body. Seemed ok for a while (and the new pump seemed quite a bit more powerful, actually) but now it is happening again.

Does this have something to do with the pump? Or could there be something about my plumbing that would allow more water to flow up to the tank even though the power of the pump hasn't changed? I do have a Tee on the return line that sends some water to my refugium, but I never notice any change in water height in the fuge.

They sent you just a replacement body? Not the controller? Is it possible something is messed up with the controller head or the wiring going to or from it?

 

[Forsaken77]

My Vectra return pump is setup/run like a standard AC pump. In other words, I set it and forget it. I don't use any of the special functions. I don't even turn it off for feeding time. The problem I'm having is that the flow will stay consistent for several days, maybe even several weeks, then suddenly I'll wake up in the morning to find that the water is really high in my display, and low in my sump. Then if I correct for it by opening my drain valve a bit, eventually the flow will drop back down and now my overflow is making noise, my sump level is too high, my skimmer is overflowing and through all of this my salt levels change (too much ato). As you can imagine, it is quite annoying. I have a flow meter on my return (pump ---> tank) plumbing and it will change from an average of 3500 l/ph to 4000-4100 l/ph. That's a significant jump.

Went back and forth with ecotech for a while, recalibrated it, cleaned it, etc and they eventually sent whole new pump body. Seemed ok for a while (and the new pump seemed quite a bit more powerful, actually) but now it is happening again.

Does this have something to do with the pump? Or could there be something about my plumbing that would allow more water to flow up to the tank even though the power of the pump hasn't changed? I do have a Tee on the return line that sends some water to my refugium, but I never notice any change in water height in the fuge.

It may have to do with restricting the pump because it has smart features built-in.

Why not leave the valve wide open and dial in the pump properly? That's what dc pumps are for anyway . See if that works.

I'm not 100% this will fix it, but the pump adjusts accordingly. I would set the smart features because they may be set on a default setting and the differences in head pressure changing will make the pump try to push more/less water. The valve may get detritus buildup and slightly restrict more flow, causing the pump to adjust. Try to use the valve only for when you need to remove the pump.

 

[Amps Reef Life]

I agree with @Crabs Mcjones check on the controller first especially if its the same controller you're using with the replacement pump.

 

[d2mini]

It may have to do with restricting the pump because it has smart features built-in.

Why not leave the valve wide open and dial in the pump properly? That's what dc pumps are for anyway . See if that works.

I'm not 100% this will fix it, but the pump adjusts accordingly. I would set the smart features because they may be set on a default setting and the differences in head pressure changing will make the pump try to push more/less water. The valve may get detritus buildup and slightly restrict more flow, causing the pump to adjust. Try to use the valve only for when you need to remove the pump.

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear. I have the pump set for like 60% or something. The valve I was talking about is on the DRAIN.

They sent you just a replacement body? Not the controller? Is it possible something is messed up with the controller head or the wiring going to or from it?

I agree with @Crabs Mcjones check on the controller first especially if its the same controller you're using with the replacement pump.

Yeah, just the body. As far as normal operation goes, the controller seems to work fine.
Not sure why they sent just the body but I don't really know how these electronic gizmos work. lol

 

[Crabs McJones]

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear. I have the pump set for like 60% or something. The valve I was talking about is on the DRAIN.



Yeah, just the body. As far as normal operation goes, the controller seems to work fine.
Not sure why they sent just the body but I don't really know how these electronic gizmos work. lol

Lol I understand. It's possible that the controller, while its showing the correct speed, could be sending the wrong signal? I'm totally shooting in the dark

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

In my short experience with these pumps in other facilities, we had several issues with the controllers. We always assumed it was the pump, or other issues. Turns out it was 90% the controller. If your running more than one, I’d swap the controllers and see if you can duplicate the problem. Do to the fact you have a new pump, it’s more than likely the controller. I doubt it’s the plumbing unless some Poor unlucky large hermit crab fell down there.

 

[KStatefan]

I do not see how the pump could cause this. I would think there are only two options.

Something changing in the plumbing.

Controller changing power to pump.

 

[mfinn]

Hello,

In my short experience with these pumps in other facilities, we had several issues with the controllers. We always assumed it was the pump, or other issues. Turns out it was 90% the controller. If your running more than one, I’d swap the controllers and see if you can duplicate the problem. Do to the fact you have a new pump, it’s more than likely the controller. I doubt it’s the plumbing unless some Poor unlucky large hermit crab fell down there.

I got to go with the controller too.

 

[VJV]

I also had some issues with my Vectra L1 and ended up swapping it out. I also have the P4 and a flow meter. One thing I would perhaps try would be to use the 0-10v connection on the Vectra (not sure if this is really possible with the Vectra but it is with other pumps like the Red Dragon pumps from Royal Exclusive) and link it to the P4. Than you dial in the flow you want through the flow valve at any given time and the P4 will ensure that the pump has the right power to produce the desired flow at all times. Again, not sure if the Vectra allows for that...

 

[rockskimmerflow]

Uhm, just curious... why are you using a vectra like an AC pump. Meaning just on at a constant speed. Whats the reason for not using an AC pump if you dont need the DC controllability features? Genuinely curious.

Try an SP4 or SP6 if you cant get it sorted. They are absolute beats as far as submersibles go. Quiet as all get out to boot. As a bonus they tend to last significantly longer than any vectra I've ever heard of.

 

[VJV]

Uhm, just curious... why are you using a vectra like an AC pump. Meaning just on at a constant speed. Whats the reason for not using an AC pump if you dont need the DC controllability features? Genuinely curious.

Try an SP4 or SP6 if you cant get it sorted. They are absolute beats as far as submersibles go. Quiet as all get out to boot. As a bonus they tend to last significantly longer than any vectra I've ever heard of.

In my case, making the tank as quiet as possible. That and saving a few watts in the electricity bill.

 

[mfinn]

In my case, making the tank as quiet as possible. That and saving a few watts in the electricity bill.

Making my tank quiet was the ultimate goal for me was my reason for going with a Vectra, and now RD3's.
I've tried most of the "quiet" ac pumps and seen a couple I have not used and thought they were pretty quiet.
But once I went with the 2 dc pumps I have tried, I don't see myself going back.

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

I would say it's is most likely the controller.

One way to check to see if the controller is drawing more/less power during periods of increased/decreed flow, is to looking at the AMP graph for the EB8 you have the pump controller attached to. This may reveal if the pump's electrical draw is changing for no good reason.

In Apex Fusion you can compare two graphs. Here's and example of one of my power strips with one of my Vortec pumps overlaid - you can see the amps change based on the power the controller is drawing as it switches modes

I would overlay your flow meter to the AMPS for the EB8 your controller is attached to and see what that reveals.


.

 

[VJV]

Denis’ controller and flow meter are the GHl Profilux 4, not the Apex [emoji4]. But of course your comment remains true.

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Denis’ controller and flow meter are the GHl Profilux 4, not the Apex [emoji4]. But of course your comment remains true.

Even better - i think the GHl Profilux 4 can monitor power on a plug-by-plug basis, correct?

 

[d2mini]

I also had some issues with my Vectra L1 and ended up swapping it out. I also have the P4 and a flow meter. One thing I would perhaps try would be to use the 0-10v connection on the Vectra (not sure if this is really possible with the Vectra but it is with other pumps like the Red Dragon pumps from Royal Exclusive) and link it to the P4. Than you dial in the flow you want through the flow valve at any given time and the P4 will ensure that the pump has the right power to produce the desired flow at all times. Again, not sure if the Vectra allows for that...

I don't think that is possible with the Vectra unfortunately.

Uhm, just curious... why are you using a vectra like an AC pump. Meaning just on at a constant speed. Whats the reason for not using an AC pump if you dont need the DC controllability features? Genuinely curious.

Try an SP4 or SP6 if you cant get it sorted. They are absolute beats as far as submersibles go. Quiet as all get out to boot. As a bonus they tend to last significantly longer than any vectra I've ever heard of.

Originally chose it because I liked the idea of being able to dial in the flow without relying on a valve to restrict power. Bonus was absolute silence while running.

Even better - i think the GHl Profilux 4 can monitor power on a plug-by-plug basis, correct?

I'll have to look into this. That is a very good point. Because this morning Ecotech asked me if I had any historical data on the flow and unfortunately GHL at this time does not record flow meter data, only probes.
I know I can see real time power usage, but not sure if it can record it over time.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

Originally chose it because I liked the idea of being able to dial in the flow without relying on a valve to restrict power. Bonus was absolute silence while running.

Gotcha. I get you on the quietness. I will say I have a lot of clients with 'super hearing'. Ive never had a complaint about noise from a Fluval SP4. Have had way more about LED cooling fans.

The controlling without a valve thing idk, me personally it just seems easier to turn a valve rather than monkey around with settings on a controller, plus I imagine the chance of a ball valve screwing up is a ton lower than software or a controller as you're currently experiencing.

 

[d2mini]

The controlling without a valve thing idk, me personally it just seems easier to turn a valve rather than monkey around with settings on a controller, plus I imagine the chance of a ball valve screwing up is a ton lower than software or a controller as you're currently experiencing.

It's actually really easy and convenient. I can open up an app on my phone and change flow to 65%. Oh, that's a tad too slow? Let's try 67%.
Needed? No. Nice to have? Sure.

But yeah, nothing wrong with AC and a valve. That's how I've always done it in the past, no complaints.