Fix My Return Pump Problem

[rkpetersen]

This is probably not what's going on in your case, but something to consider. In many areas, your line AC power coming in will be a few volts higher at night than it is during the day. Power companies reduce voltage during the daytime peak usage. I have seen this result in (generally small) differences in pump output and corresponding changes to overflow and sump water levels, with both AC and DC pumps. Here's my current incoming voltage tracing from Apex which shows how much they drop our voltage during the day in my area.

 

[mdd1986]

Many controllers of DC pumps have features that allow it to ramp/up down automatically depending on change in head pressure. For example many DC pumps can turn off due to running dry (no head pressure). Many of these pumps are sensorless BLDC style so they will use back EMF to sense these type of changes. It sounds alot like what is happening here.

 

[Bmezz]

do you have a reeflink hooked up to the system? you can see pump health? how is the plumbing?

But i do think the controller as many said could be a target here.....

 

[Larry L]

Why are you running with a valve on the drain line? Normally you want to run your drain at 100% capacity, otherwise with any buildup or blockage you risk water backing up and the tank overflowing.

 

[d2mini]

Why are you running with a valve on the drain line? Normally you want to run your drain at 100% capacity, otherwise with any buildup or blockage you risk water backing up and the tank overflowing.

Because this tiny little Elos overflow flows epic amounts of water.
I have ALWAYS run a valve on my drain to control flow/overflow water height. But I have always had an emergency drain, Herbie style or Bean Animal style. The Elos has a similar setup.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

It's actually really easy and convenient. I can open up an app on my phone and change flow to 65%. Oh, that's a tad too slow? Let's try 67%.
Needed? No. Nice to have? Sure.

But yeah, nothing wrong with AC and a valve. That's how I've always done it in the past, no complaints.

Fair enough. I guess to me it just seemed odd to prioritize that feature when you still have to adjust a manual valve on the overflow drain. But hey, half of us are in this more for the toys and gadgets than the fish/coral

Have you used the old eheim 1262 or any of the fluval SP series in your past AC based pumping setups? I ask because I'd rate the fluvals at about the same silence and refinement level as the old eheim 1262 which is a dead quiet brick, but inefficient by modern standards. The fluvals are about 50 percent more efficient watt/flow wise IME.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

It may have to do with restricting the pump because it has smart features built-in.

Why not leave the valve wide open and dial in the pump properly? That's what dc pumps are for anyway . See if that works.

I'm not 100% this will fix it, but the pump adjusts accordingly. I would set the smart features because they may be set on a default setting and the differences in head pressure changing will make the pump try to push more/less water. The valve may get detritus buildup and slightly restrict more flow, causing the pump to adjust. Try to use the valve only for when you need to remove the pump.

If using a valve what type, gate, ball type. Let us know

 

[Forsaken77]

If using a valve what type, gate, ball type. Let us know

I was saying to not use a valve with a dc pump and let the control be done by the pump. But he has the valve on the drain, not the return where I assumed he had it (where most of us put valves).

What were you asking about the valve, specifically?

Your username has been my Xbox Live Gametag for 16 years btw. Not spelled the same, but still. Just thought I'd throw that out there, lol.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Instead of yo mama, Jomama my first name is Joe. I thought he had a valve on return line. Gate valve and ball valve not design to control fluid flow accurately . Pressure regulated type yes. But psi is close to none or low, in return water to tank. And I don't know of any pressure regulated valve applications in our hobby. Plus he has a pump that can be controlled. Pumps are pretty accurate in flow compared to overflow going out of tank, especially if going into some prefilter.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

The location of valve if no prefilter may be getting clogged

 

[d2mini]

Fair enough. I guess to me it just seemed odd to prioritize that feature when you still have to adjust a manual valve on the overflow drain. But hey, half of us are in this more for the toys and gadgets than the fish/coral

Have you used the old eheim 1262 or any of the fluval SP series in your past AC based pumping setups? I ask because I'd rate the fluvals at about the same silence and refinement level as the old eheim 1262 which is a dead quiet brick, but inefficient by modern standards. The fluvals are about 50 percent more efficient watt/flow wise IME.

It's not prioritized, but it is convenient to have.

I have an SP-4 running my skimmer. It's pretty quiet. The Vectra you can't even tell is running. Literally the only way to know that it turned on is to see water level dropping in the sump or going up in the display.
But I would run an SP return pump.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

It's not prioritized, but it is convenient to have.

I have an SP-4 running my skimmer. It's pretty quiet. The Vectra you can't even tell is running. Literally the only way to know that it turned on is to see water level dropping in the sump or going up in the display.
But I would run an SP return pump.

Oh interesting, I would not have expected you to have an SP4 on a skimmer. Seems like switching the places of the L1 and SP4 might solve your problem right there. I take it your skimmer does not overflow during the night when your L1 goes out of range, suggesting we can rule out any errant mains voltage changes as another poster suggested might be the case.

 

[d2mini]

Oh interesting, I would not have expected you to have an SP4 on a skimmer. Seems like switching the places of the L1 and SP4 might solve your problem right there. I take it your skimmer does not overflow during the night when your L1 goes out of range, suggesting we can rule out any errant mains voltage changes as another poster suggested might be the case.

No, the only time the skimmer overflows is if I made valve adjustments to handle the sudden extra flow (which emptied my sump), and then the flow returns to normal which over-fills the sump.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

No, the only time the skimmer overflows is if I made valve adjustments to handle the sudden extra flow (which emptied my sump), and then the flow returns to normal which over-fills the sump.

haha sounds about right

 

[ReeferMaddness843]

Just throwing options out there as I’ve run into this problem:
What type of powerheads do you run and do they have an alternate pattern?
Reason I ask is I run dual gyres on an alternating cycle that changes every two hours. I noticed on the time after the pump would push toward my overflow, then switch the opposite direction, there was a drastic change in return pump section that the ato would time out on and not be able to keep up with.

 

[Fin]

Following...

 

[d2mini]

I'm an ID•DEEE•UT!

Not that this fixes anything, but I've been saying all along that my flow meter is on my return.
I forgot that when I replumbed a while back I switched it to the drain. ;Facepalm

But I don't think this changes the weirdness.
If my overflow just decided to start flowing more water for some reason, my sump would FILL and my display water level would DROP. That is not the case.
My display water level rises and my sump level drops. So the pump is still pumping more.
I think what happens is that as my tank fills and gets near the top, the Elos overflow's emergency mechanism kicks in and allows more water to flow down through my drain plumbing.

I talked to Ecotech again and they are still stumped but looking into it. I did bring up the idea of my house current possibly fluctuating but they said that wouldn't matter with a dc pump.
Waiting for it to happen again so I can send more info.

 

[justingraham]

My vectra does the same thing
I thought I was going crazy
Glad I saw this
if u need information I have some as well

 

[d2mini]

My vectra does the same thing
I thought I was going crazy
Glad I saw this
if u need information I have some as well

Feel free to post here with your experience. Or pm me if you'd rather.
I'd be happy to forward on any pertinent info to the Ecotech crew.

 

[justingraham]

So first off I clean my pump every six months or so i am by no means religious about it but I also do not forget about it either. It’s more I clean it when I have time around the six month mark. I also run two return pumps (at one point it was two M1’s now it is a cor 20 and an m1) and try to maintain a combined 1000-1100 gph.
Now I don’t know lph but from a quick search ur pump is varying 1000 gph which I’m also guessing your running it at 100%? In the last week my vectra has been as low as 432 and as high as 506 running at 75% I also can go back and see for the most part this is my weekly swing 70gph.

I have a different tank then u but I know when it kicks up as I have to adjust my bean animal as I hear the slight trickle of water in my secondary pipe.
From what I can see the lower the watts on the eb832 the greater the flow I get from it.

My pump has been calibrated reset all the fun stuff. But I can say that compared to the cor which is only a 40 gph diffence weekly I have way more variance in the vectra