Flame Hawk not eating for 2 wks - Prazi overdose? Medication mix OD? Something else?

[hokiereef]

I had been running in the reefing halls with scissors for years - no quarantine. I never had a large tank, so I took my chances.

I recently purchased a larger tank, and decided to reform my ways by doing everything right.
That meant putting my existing fish thru quarantine while my older tank runs fallow for 76 days and then moving everything over.

I had 2 clowns, a Midas Blenny, and a Flame Hawk. None of them had any signs of disease, but I was not taking chances.
I did 2 weeks in copper (copper power) for all 4 - which they breezed thru.
I moved them to a new, bleached clean and cycled (for a month) tank for 2 rounds of Prazi before moving them into my new fishless display.

Round one of Prazi went fine, but I noticed a stringy white poop from one of the Clowns (it wasn't like the white poop I had seen before, it clung for a while and fell vs. hanging for a long time).
I had these fish for 11 months and had never seen it, but decided to do the API GC/Focus combo on pellets to be safe.
As I started that, 6 days had passed and I did a large water change - >30% - and dosed round 2 of Prazi.

At that point, the fish stopped eating and the Flame Hawk looked terrible. After 24 hours I put in carbon and started an air stone.
I did another - this time bigger water change. The water started to cloud up considerably.
I have since added more carbon, done 2 more water changes, and ran poly filter.

The Midas Bleny and 2 clowns have fully recovered, are eating, and look great. I have not seen white poop since Prazi round one.
But I'm going on 2 weeks w/o the Flame Hawk eating. He is looking better day by day, but still not eating.
He has his full color - no spots of any kind. Not swimming as usual and not eating. Just perched and lethargic. He ate like a pig the entire time I had him, even in copper.

I'm not sure what happened. I might have slightly OD'ed the Prazipro as I put in 1 Tsp in a 20G QT but did not account for displacement. I have Ammonia alert badge and it never changed from yellow. I recently did a second and tested for ammonia just in case it somehow was wrong. All clear.
Could the API GC that was uneaten have spiked the Prazi dosage and caused the cloudy bloom? Does it leech back into the water?
Did I somehow miss a step in the process?

Thoughts on what might have happened or how I proceed?

These fish were healthy for months in my tank, no signs of any disease and I'd hate to think I put them thru this as a precaution and hurt them.

 

[hokiereef]

Here is a picture(not the best quality)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi, welcome to Reef2Reef!

I doubt that it is anything to do directly with the praziquantel. I've dosed that at 2x the concentration with no issues in hawkfish. Did you use Prazipro though? The solvent in that can cause cloudy water and low dissolved oxygen (those issues should be transient though).

I am not a big fan of GC+Focus - metronidazole is very bitter and can be overdosed. This puts fish off their feed (but again, should be temporary). The trouble with GC+Focus is that the dose is completely uncontrolled - you really have no way to know what dose the fish got as compared to what is proper for those meds. Take a look in the articles section here, about 8 posts down, for an article I wrote on medicated foods.

Jay

 

[hokiereef]

Thank you so much for the reply!
The problem with the food w/ GC/Focus was that they didn't eat it. So it decomposed.
Do the meds then hit the water column?

Question I have now is what do I do?
- If he isn't eating after 2 weeks, is there anything I can do? (I hatched bbs last nite, will try)
- The other fish look healthy. Is there a possibility it is something I need to worry about that is contagious but did not show up for 10 months in last tank but is now impacting the Flame Hawk?
- Does he have a better shot at eating in a DT with live rock and places to perch better than a heater?

The fish were healthy for months with no signs of illness before this.

Really torn here.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you so much for the reply!
The problem with the food w/ GC/Focus was that they didn't eat it. So it decomposed.
Do the meds then hit the water column?

Question I have now is what do I do?
- If he isn't eating after 2 weeks, is there anything I can do? (I hatched bbs last nite, will try)
- The other fish look healthy. Is there a possibility it is something I need to worry about that is contagious but did not show up for 10 months in last tank but is now impacting the Flame Hawk?
- Does he have a better shot at eating in a DT with live rock and places to perch better than a heater?

The fish were healthy for months with no signs of illness before this.

Really torn here.

BBS is a good thing to try. Yes, whatever meds were in the food are now in the tank, but probably not at very high levels. Yes, the DT would give it a better chance to resume feeding, however that is risky since you aren’t sure what it might carry in with it, right?
Jay

 

[hokiereef]

The bbs did not work, will keep trying.
I agree, there is a risk to moving him if he has something. What else do I try based on:
- These fish lived for 10 months in a tank I had and never showed signs of any illness
- They have gone thru Copper safe at 2.25PPM for 2 weeks (checked every other day)
- While in copper, Metro was dosed every other day 5 times
- They were moved at 2 weeks to a new tank and went thru 2 rounds of Prazipro
- There are no signs of Ich, no lesions, no odd swimming behaviors in any of the fish
- The only issue seen was stringy white poop from one of the clowns - which happened the day after Prazipro round one and not again
- After Prazipro round 2, all fish stopped eating
- After multiple water changes and carbon, 3 of the 4 have fully recovered

If I am to do something other than just hope he starts eating again, what would that be?
What illness causes a fish to stop swimming or eating that I did not treat for already?

 

[Juniorh2r]

Any updates?

 

[hokiereef]

Nope. Tried bbs this morning, Flame did not bite. He is in corner on top of heater, not swimming and not eating.
2 clowns and Midas Blenny are doing fine.

 

[Juniorh2r]

Sucks man hope he makes it.... Have you tried garlic ?

 

[Juniorh2r]

Soaking food in garlic bright well sells concentrated drops to soak food in

 

[hokiereef]

I’ll soak the LRS frozen in garlic tonight. Good call.
Any other ideas or treatments to try?

 

[Juniorh2r]

Hopefully that works I would hold back on the treatments so it does not promote more stress and focus on him eating once he starts eating you can continue treatment visibly he looks fine. Good luck keep up the updates

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The bbs did not work, will keep trying.
I agree, there is a risk to moving him if he has something. What else do I try based on:
- These fish lived for 10 months in a tank I had and never showed signs of any illness
- They have gone thru Copper safe at 2.25PPM for 2 weeks (checked every other day)
- While in copper, Metro was dosed every other day 5 times
- They were moved at 2 weeks to a new tank and went thru 2 rounds of Prazipro
- There are no signs of Ich, no lesions, no odd swimming behaviors in any of the fish
- The only issue seen was stringy white poop from one of the clowns - which happened the day after Prazipro round one and not again
- After Prazipro round 2, all fish stopped eating
- After multiple water changes and carbon, 3 of the 4 have fully recovered

If I am to do something other than just hope he starts eating again, what would that be?
What illness causes a fish to stop swimming or eating that I did not treat for already?

Reading that scenario, I think you should move the fish to the DT...you are very close to a full quarantine.....

Jay

 

[hokiereef]

Another day, Flame still not eating. I soaked the LRS in Garlic Guard along with multiple drops of fresh hatched bbs with no feeding response. It's now 16 days of not eating.

I've been pouring over every post I can find about similar situations and matching what I saw to symptoms of different scenarios.

From what I saw, and what matches the symptoms, I believe the tank oxygen levels dropped to very low levels. The Prazipro (which was dosed a bit too high), GC lased food, the bacterial bloom/cloudy water after 2nd Prazipro dose and maybe even the fact that it was freshly cycled all probably contributed.

I added an airstone, pointed the powerhead directly upward and did multiple large water changes, along with carbon but it seems like the damage to the Flame might be too much to recover from.
If that insight somehow changes what anyone might recommend I'm all ears.

I am not giving up, and he looks better than 4/5 days ago, but I'm shocked he has lasted this long with no food.
Thanks for the help/ideas/insights.

 

[hokiereef]

Flame Hawk is still not eating. He reacts to food, and looks as if he might be eating but it's not enough to be sure.
He looks more healthy, but is still not eating and swimming like he used to.

Im very surprised he has made it this long w/o eating.

I have kept him in QT. Im really nervous about adding a sick fish to the DT. I'm torn because I think he has a better chance in there.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Flame Hawk is still not eating. He reacts to food, and looks as if he might be eating but it's not enough to be sure.
He looks more healthy, but is still not eating and swimming like he used to.

Im very surprised he has made it this long w/o eating.

I have kept him in QT. Im really nervous about adding a sick fish to the DT. I'm torn because I think he has a better chance in there.

Going back and reading this all over again - have you confirmed that it can see well enough to find food? Does the fish react to you if you move around outside the tank? I'm just wondering about neurological damage caused by low oxygen or something.

There isn't any highly communicable disease that I know of that has the sole symptom of not eating. Lack of feeding due to serious disease is always combined with some other symptom - usually rapid breathing, lesions on the skin, things like that.

Jay

 

[hokiereef]

Thanks for that insight. I was wondering if there was any disease to worry about and I'm really nervous.

He continues to regain his faculties, and is swimming from tank floor to midpoint of heater to top of heater in a pretty consistent way. He does not react to me being at the tank - and he used to. That's an interesting perspective. I see his eyes moving around more now, and he made some movements when I add food, but it's hard to say he is actually eating. He doesn't "seem" blind. But he does not go after food like he used to.

I took a video of him reacting to bbs i put in yesterday.

 

[hokiereef]

First time posting a vid.
Not sure how video isn't loading, it's only 7 secs. Tried a few times.
Maybe there is a delay ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The video worked, thanks. Are its eyes protruding a bit more than they should be? I still think that its sight has been impaired to some degree. On a regular fish, it is pretty obvious when they can't see - they bump into things. With bottom dwelling fish, it can be more difficult to determine, since they use their fins to feel their way along the bottom.

Jay

 

[hokiereef]

His eyes don't look that different to me, but maybe.

He is struggling - more from what looks like lack of energy - to swim to the top of the heater, but it doesn't seem like he doesn't see it. And then he also perches on the suction cups beneath the top, and gets there without bumping into things.

He is definitely looking better... but it's taking a long time.
I'm glad he ate like a pig before this and fattened up.