Urgent - Prazi treatment

[Aronsaquarium]

Hi!
I have an established 75g with a bunch of new fish in there.
I have copper in there currently, but have been getting a bunch of fish still flashing by their gills mostly. (Sometimes elsewhere) after several weeks at 0.5 cupramime.

So I dropped the copper down to .4 and added prazi on Sunday night last week.
The flashing went down majorly after that. They were still flashing a little so I added a tiny bit more to the dose the follow evening (Monday night). (I know that probably did nothing.. other than make me feel better lol)

On Tuesday night I brought the copper back up. Till around 0.6

Anyways, over the last week the flashing has gotten worse by the day.

I’ve been waiting for day 8th which would be tomorrow night or maybe better Tuesday morning after their feeding to do the next dose.
But my flame angel hasn’t been eating since the first dose on Sunday night last week.

He ate some live food on Tuesday and Wednesday but hasn’t eaten after that.

I know they hate medications, and I can move him out of the main tank to a small established tank i have for my Mandarine fish. But I want him treated with the second dose before moving him.

what should I do?
All the other fish are eating well, but I’m scared to wait another day and a half to treat prazi then leave him in there for 24 hours before moving him.
That’s another almost 3 days of not eating

Any better options?
A prazi bath?
Or dose next dose of prazi a day and a half early?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi!
I have an established 75g with a bunch of new fish in there.
I have copper in there currently, but have been getting a bunch of fish still flashing by their gills mostly. (Sometimes elsewhere) after several weeks at 0.5 cupramime.

So I dropped the copper down to .4 and added prazi on Sunday night last week.
The flashing went down majorly after that. They were still flashing a little so I added a tiny bit more to the dose the follow evening (Monday night). (I know that probably did nothing.. other than make me feel better lol)

On Tuesday night I brought the copper back up. Till around 0.6

Anyways, over the last week the flashing has gotten worse by the day.

I’ve been waiting for day 8th which would be tomorrow night or maybe better Tuesday morning after their feeding to do the next dose.
But my flame angel hasn’t been eating since the first dose on Sunday night last week.

He ate some live food on Tuesday and Wednesday but hasn’t eaten after that.

I know they hate medications, and I can move him out of the main tank to a small established tank i have for my Mandarine fish. But I want him treated with the second dose before moving him.

what should I do?
All the other fish are eating well, but I’m scared to wait another day and a half to treat prazi then leave him in there for 24 hours before moving him.
That’s another almost 3 days of not eating

Any better options?
A prazi bath?
Or dose next dose of prazi a day and a half early?

mandarins dont do well with copper treatments as you suspected. You dont want to drop the copper level for the ionic copper you are using and go at least .45. You can safely add prazi But also increase Oxygen with air stone as przi reduces O2 and appetite. The treatment for prazi with copper is dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite. If running a skimmer, leave cup off first 24 hrs as skimmer will go nuts from the glycol solution in Prazi

 

[Aronsaquarium]

mandarins dont do well with copper treatments as you suspected. You dont want to drop the copper level for the ionic copper you are using and go at least .45. You can safely add prazi But also increase Oxygen with air stone as przi reduces O2 and appetite. The treatment for prazi with copper is dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite. If running a skimmer, leave cup off first 24 hrs as skimmer will go nuts from the glycol solution in Prazi

Thanks!
So the question is with my flame angel.
He’s not eating.
The cloudiness on his fins and eyes went away after prazi treatment, and he initially wasn’t flashing much. But is now flashing a lot again. So I don’t want to move him out of the tank with copper until he has another prazi treatment. Otherwise I’m bringing parasites to that small tank (that’s housing my Mandarine).

If I add the second prazi dose a day early is that ruining the whole plan?
Or should I do a prazi bath just for him and then move him?

Or is it ok if he doesn’t eat much for a week. And I’ll move him 24hours after the second dose goes in on Tuesday morning?

While I’m at it, are you saying I shouldn’t put the full dose in when there’s copper present?

Thanks so much

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi!
I have an established 75g with a bunch of new fish in there.
I have copper in there currently, but have been getting a bunch of fish still flashing by their gills mostly. (Sometimes elsewhere) after several weeks at 0.5 cupramime.

So I dropped the copper down to .4 and added prazi on Sunday night last week.
The flashing went down majorly after that. They were still flashing a little so I added a tiny bit more to the dose the follow evening (Monday night). (I know that probably did nothing.. other than make me feel better lol)

On Tuesday night I brought the copper back up. Till around 0.6

Anyways, over the last week the flashing has gotten worse by the day.

I’ve been waiting for day 8th which would be tomorrow night or maybe better Tuesday morning after their feeding to do the next dose.
But my flame angel hasn’t been eating since the first dose on Sunday night last week.

He ate some live food on Tuesday and Wednesday but hasn’t eaten after that.

I know they hate medications, and I can move him out of the main tank to a small established tank i have for my Mandarine fish. But I want him treated with the second dose before moving him.

what should I do?
All the other fish are eating well, but I’m scared to wait another day and a half to treat prazi then leave him in there for 24 hours before moving him.
That’s another almost 3 days of not eating

Any better options?
A prazi bath?
Or dose next dose of prazi a day and a half early?

Flame angels don’t do well with ionic copper like Cupramine. I wonder if that plus prazi is just hitting it hard?
What form of prazi are you using?
Does the tank have good aeration?

I think you can dose prazi a day and a half early, the rebounding symptoms indicate a new batch have already hatched out.

Prazi baths only work if you can move the fish to a sterile tank.

Jay

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Flame angels don’t do well with ionic copper like Cupramine. I wonder if that plus prazi is just hitting it hard?
What form of prazi are you using?
Does the tank have good aeration?

I think you can dose prazi a day and a half early, the rebounding symptoms indicate a new batch have already hatched out.

Prazi baths only work if you can move the fish to a sterile tank.

Jay

Thank you so much Jay!

He was totally fine for several weeks until the Prazipro was added. So that’s my assumption too.
I’m using Prazipro.

I’m using my skimmer the aerator.
So when dosing prazi I lower the oxygen so it doesn’t bubble over but adds bubbles through the tank.
I’m assuming that’s a good way of really aerating out the tank?

I have a second tank (10gallon) that should be sterile.
It has a Mandarine in it.. but I can either do a bath and move him to that tank.
Or dose the whole tank and me be him to that tank in 24 hours so he can get back to himself

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks!
So the question is with my flame angel.
He’s not eating.
The cloudiness on his fins and eyes went away after prazi treatment, and he initially wasn’t flashing much. But is now flashing a lot again. So I don’t want to move him out of the tank with copper until he has another prazi treatment. Otherwise I’m bringing parasites to that small tank (that’s housing my Mandarine).

If I add the second prazi dose a day early is that ruining the whole plan?
Or should I do a prazi bath just for him and then move him?

Or is it ok if he doesn’t eat much for a week. And I’ll move him 24hours after the second dose goes in on Tuesday morning?

While I’m at it, are you saying I shouldn’t put the full dose in when there’s copper present?

Thanks so much

At a week its likely feeding off its liver or starting to thin. At what dosage intervals did you treat (days, etc)?

 

[Aronsaquarium]

At a week its likely feeding off its liver or starting to thin. At what dosage intervals did you treat (days, etc)?

Got the fish on Decemeber 18th.
Went into copper. Was eating totally fine.
I started prazi on the 31st of december.
We’re now a week today from the first dose

 

[vetteguy53081]

Got the fish on Decemeber 18th.
Went into copper. Was eating totally fine.
I started prazi on the 31st of december.
We’re now a week today from the first dose

Ok- Loss of appetite not abnormal with prazi. Generally best on my behalf is to dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite. If running a skimmer, leave cup off first 24 hrs as skimmer will go nuts from the glycol solution in Prazi

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Ok so you’re saying @vetteguy53081 that I shouldn’t start the next dose early?
And @Jay Hemdal is saying I should

Fish started flashing probably 3/4 days after first dose. Some of the fish are actually stopping to flash so much now.. so I’m not sure if my whole timing to do the second dose tomorrow is even good. But hopefully it is?

Last question, once I have you both here.
This tank that the fish are all in 99% sure had ich in it November 5th.
It’s had copper ever since then.

Do I need to count 77 days from when the last fish I added?
Or from November 5th. Plus 14 days from when I added the last fish?
If there’s any middle ground as opposed to restarting the full 77 days that would be great, as I know it’s not great for the fish long term to be in copper endlessly..

Thank you both so so much as always!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ok so you’re saying @vetteguy53081 that I shouldn’t start the next dose early?
And @Jay Hemdal is saying I should

Fish started flashing probably 3/4 days after first dose. Some of the fish are actually stopping to flash so much now.. so I’m not sure if my whole timing to do the second dose tomorrow is even good. But hopefully it is?

Last question, once I have you both here.
This tank that the fish are all in 99% sure had ich in it November 5th.
It’s had copper ever since then.

Do I need to count 77 days from when the last fish I added?
Or from November 5th. Plus 14 days from when I added the last fish?
If there’s any middle ground as opposed to restarting the full 77 days that would be great, as I know it’s not great for the fish long term to be in copper endlessly..

Thank you both so so much as always!

It takes prazi a couple of days to start taking effect and you do want to spread it apart with water change in between intervals and will also react based on type of flukes

 

[Aronsaquarium]

It takes prazi a couple of days to start taking effect and you do want to spread it apart with water change in between intervals and will also react based on type of flukes

Got it, Thanks so much!

And re the copper timing, have any thoughts?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ok so you’re saying @vetteguy53081 that I shouldn’t start the next dose early?
And @Jay Hemdal is saying I should

Fish started flashing probably 3/4 days after first dose. Some of the fish are actually stopping to flash so much now.. so I’m not sure if my whole timing to do the second dose tomorrow is even good. But hopefully it is?

Last question, once I have you both here.
This tank that the fish are all in 99% sure had ich in it November 5th.
It’s had copper ever since then.

Do I need to count 77 days from when the last fish I added?
Or from November 5th. Plus 14 days from when I added the last fish?
If there’s any middle ground as opposed to restarting the full 77 days that would be great, as I know it’s not great for the fish long term to be in copper endlessly..

Thank you both so so much as always!

its 45-60 days from date you removed fish to assure the trophonts/tomants have died off without a host fish

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you so much Jay!

He was totally fine for several weeks until the Prazipro was added. So that’s my assumption too.
I’m using Prazipro.

I’m using my skimmer the aerator.
So when dosing prazi I lower the oxygen so it doesn’t bubble over but adds bubbles through the tank.
I’m assuming that’s a good way of really aerating out the tank?

I have a second tank (10gallon) that should be sterile.
It has a Mandarine in it.. but I can either do a bath and move him to that tank.
Or dose the whole tank and me be him to that tank in 24 hours so he can get back to himself

Yes, as long as the skimmer is bubbling well, but you are not collecting skimmate, that adds oxygen. An extra air stone is always a good idea though.

If I read correctly, you’ve been treating with Cupramine since 11/5? I think that is too long. Cupramine is more toxic than coppersafe. Some people say only use Cupramine for 14 days. I think 21 to 30 days is better, but I would not go longer than that.

Jay

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Yes, as long as the skimmer is bubbling well, but you are not collecting skimmate, that adds oxygen. An extra air stone is always a good idea though.

If I read correctly, you’ve been treating with Cupramine since 11/5? I think that is too long. Cupramine is more toxic than coppersafe. Some people say only use Cupramine for 14 days. I think 21 to 30 days is better, but I would not go longer than that.

Jay

Ok perfect! And would that be from when I added the last fish to the tank? (Just in case they brought ich with them too)
Or do I only need 14 days after adding new fish?

They’re staying in the same tank. I’m just removing the copper. So if 30 days is better I’ll remove the copper in a couple weeks.. as I added the last fish on Decemeber 31st.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok perfect! And would that be from when I added the last fish to the tank? (Just in case they brought ich with them too)
Or do I only need 14 days after adding new fish?

They’re staying in the same tank. I’m just removing the copper. So if 30 days is better I’ll remove the copper in a couple weeks.. as I added the last fish on Decemeber 31st.

That is the issue about adding new fish to an existing quarantine run - the new fish need to be held in cupramine for at least 21 days, but you cannot move the old fish out until they have, that means the old fish get stuck in the copper for too long. I have a rule that once I start a quarantine run, no new fish get added.

Jay

 

[Aronsaquarium]

That is the issue about adding new fish to an existing quarantine run - the new fish need to be held in cupramine for at least 21 days, but you cannot move the old fish out until they have, that means the old fish get stuck in the copper for too long. I have a rule that once I start a quarantine run, no new fish get added.

Jay

100% Makes sense.

After I lost several fish to ich. I decided I’d immediately get the new fish do do the full tank together.
But it ended up taking several weeks to get those fish in.

If you’re saying better 30 days, I’ll take out the copper on day 30 from when the last fish was added.

And for the flame angel that seems to be the most sensitive to this (everyone else seems happy), I’ll move him to my 10g after his in the prazi for 24 hours. As he’s already been in cooper all this time too.
And it can stay there I guess for a little bit until I pull out the copper

24 hours should be enough in prazi before moving him?

Thanks a million!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

100% Makes sense.

After I lost several fish to ich. I decided I’d immediately get the new fish do do the full tank together.
But it ended up taking several weeks to get those fish in.

If you’re saying better 30 days, I’ll take out the copper on day 30 from when the last fish was added.

And for the flame angel that seems to be the most sensitive to this (everyone else seems happy), I’ll move him to my 10g after his in the prazi for 24 hours. As he’s already been in cooper all this time too.
And it can stay there I guess for a little bit until I pull out the copper

24 hours should be enough in prazi before moving him?

Thanks a million!

Yes, prazi works in just a few hours. Going forward, I think you will have fewer issues if you use coppersafe. It is less likely to cause adverse reactions, and I’ve held fish in it for 4+ months with no issues.
Jay

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Yes, prazi works in just a few hours. Going forward, I think you will have fewer issues if you use coppersafe. It is less likely to cause adverse reactions, and I’ve held fish in it for 4+ months with no issues.
Jay

Thanks so much!
Cupraminen I keep in the 0.5-.6 area.
What should I do for Coppersafe?

And can I switch it over slowly?
Or one needs to be completely removed before the other is introduced

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks so much!
Cupraminen I keep in the 0.5-.6 area.
What should I do for Coppersafe?

And can I switch it over slowly?
Or one needs to be completely removed before the other is introduced

Ah - you need to completely remove Cupramine before using coppersafe, so I just wanted you to consider that for in the future. Coppersafe is dosed at 2.25 ppm

Jay

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Hi,
I’m checking back in 9 days later..
So I haven’t seen flashing since my second dose of Prazipro which was put in last week Tuesday morning.
Until last night and this morning I’m seeing one fish flashing again..
Today is day 9 from the second dose.. should I be putting in a third dose?

The flashing seems to have mostly cleared up in the tank, and I don’t want it to get bad again…

(The tank has Cupramine in it too at .58)