For a beginner: AIO, "PNP," or Build-your-own?

[robodude666]

Greetings R2R,

I've have a 55 gallon Planted freshwater aquarium for a couple years now and was recently bitten by the reef bug after running across Inappropriate Reefer.

I went to my LFS on Friday with the intention of getting an all-in-one system for ~$500 (e.g. JBJ 45, Aquatop Recife ECO 40G, BioCube 32G). However, after looking around and talking to the employees I started doubting whether an AIO is right for me. I started to consider something like a Marineland 60 Frameless Cube w/ Corner-Flo and external sump (approx. ~$750). Uncertain, I went home and spent the weekend researching and came across SCA's PNP systems which also range in the $750+ price point... Then I started drooling over the $1300+ Red Sea Reefers... which I can't possibly justify at this point in my life.

My main concern now is I'll quickly outgrow what an AIO is capable of -- or at least, in terms of my desires for it and ability to get shiny upgrades, as I've seen many YouTubers outgrow while researching AIO systems. As I've read in several R2R threads, many Reef Keepers enjoy researching, buying, and installing new equipment just as much as they enjoy the rest of the hobby -- and I can certainly say that's likely to be true for me as well.

At the moment, I'm mostly interested in keeping fish, soft corals, and LPS. I have no interest (as of yet!) to keep SPS, but wouldn't want to completely prevent myself from exploring that avenue in the future.

I'm specifically looking for the most aquarium I can afford ($500-$750) that is no wider than 34-36", but am willing to pay (to an extent) for quality and piece of mind. I do want a sump/skimmer, with the ability to expand to having reactors, apex controller, etc. in the future. I think a 40 gallon would be more than enough (maybe?) for me, but am considering 50 and 66 gallon aquariums simply because the stand allows for more equipment and easier access.

In that regards, are the SCA's PNPs the best bang-for-the-buck options? Or am I rushing in too quickly and should go through the rite of passage of upgrading from an AIO?

Note: I'm not against DIY stuff, but when it comes to large volumes of water and potentially thousands of $ worth of live stock and equipment I'm not willing to take that chance and would prefer a turn-key solution that I know would be tried, true, and reliable. This is actually why I came across the SCA PNPs while researching alternative stands for the Marineland frameless as I did not like the stand Marineland offered.

Thanks,
-robodude666

 

[SPR1968]

Firstly welcome to R2R it’s great to have you with us!

I personally like all the Red Sea tanks, but unfortunately they are expensive but you do get what you pay for. You might find some of the smaller AIO ones are in your budget or thereabouts

I would just go as big as you can afford/fit otherwise you will quickly outgrow it once you get hooked!

I’m sure we will get views on the other tanks you mention as well.

 

[robodude666]

Shaun,

Thanks for the reply! Curious what are you thoughts on what you get for the extra cost of Red Sea systems? I'm also a bit concerned as I've read Red Sea uses custom sized filter socks and sumps may not be as flexible as options from Eshopps/Skimz/Trigger Systems.

It looks like the lowest cost of entry for non-AIO Red Sea (unless I'm mistaken) is the Reefer 170 which gets you a 34 gallon aquarium for ~$1k... compared to a SCA 66 Gallon PNP which also includes a return pump, basic media, and skimmer for the same price. Similar sized Red Sea would be the 250 for $1,400 for 54 Gallons. Another alternative I've seen is Deep Blue which has a 60 gallon rimless tank+stand for ~$800.

I won't lie though... The sleek looks of the Red Sea are very enticing.

-robodude666

 

[SPR1968]

Shaun,

Thanks for the reply! Curious what are you thoughts on what you get for the extra cost of Red Sea systems? .

I won't lie though... The sleek looks of the Red Sea are very enticing.

-robodude666

This about sums it up, they are quality high end systems, I have the Max S 650 and they are all stunning. But it’s your money and your choice.

The refers don’t include equipment as far as I know, you add what you want, but look at the Max series if you want complete systems

https://www.redseafish.com/aquarium-systems/max-aquarium-systems/max-nano/

I can’t comment on the others you mention as I’ve only ever had Red Sea, a Max E260 before the current tank

On the filter socks, there just standard I think 4 inch, and readily available so there is no issues there

 

[Leicobra]

Hi robodude666
Its my 1st post here on the site. I always get excited when someone is geting into reefing. Speaking from my personal experience, in the past 10 years. I must say that i have upgrade or downgraded many times. IMO, there is never going to be a perfect size tank as your interest grows. Red sea, water box = $$$. They are good tanks, but as a starting point, i would start with a cheaper set up. Cadlight is one or yet finding a used reefer online. Whats more important is learning the knowledge needed to keep everything happy in your tank. I have seen way too many new reefers leaving the hobby although they have the " perfect tank ". Find something works for yourself and reasonable. I started with a used 40 breeder and then 65, 150.....Now. I am runing a 80 gallon sps tank. If i can go bigger i would love to, but i have consider how much work and time do i wanna put in everyday. Hope you can pick the right tank and happy reefing.
Best
Lee

 

[mattzang]

I have the 50 gallon SCA PNP, there's a lot of people on here that do if you want to search build threads.

It's a good setup IMO, the tank itself looks good, but red sea stuff is on another level if that's what you're looking for. I'd also say that this hobby isn't cheap.. I thought I could have a nice little setup just nemo and some other fish.. not even knowing that keeping corals was a thing lol.

If you just want to do softies/LPS the cubes are cool because you can get away with cheaper lighting. I have just 1 AI Prime on my tank, although once stuff grows out a bit I'll probably need another. The bigger the tank the more expensive everything is too. 50 seems like a nice starting point. Not too small where parameter swings mess you up big time, not so big that a decent % water change isn't all that hard.

I upgraded the skimmer/return pump, but honestly, they were probably ok. Especially if you don't overstock, which I kinda did. The sump is small, I don't have any reactors, but if you're handy you can probably figure out a way. You definitely can't fit an ATO in there, so maybe a cabinet near the tank would be cool or something on the wall behind the tank, there's an opening in the cabinet.

If you're really wanting to do things cheap, maybe check craigslist/offerup/facebook market for people selling tanks. There's someone near me selling a 150 gallon SCA tank/stand for $750. Kinda wish I got that as I've hit my max on fish I can keep, but starting brand new has perks too. I get the urge to upgrade and I've only had my tank about 6 months, but honestly my checkbook needs a break so I'm kinda looking forward to sitting back and letting things mature, both fish and corals. Someday I'll venture into the 120-180 realm, but not at this point.

I haven't had an AIO, but I did kinda start the hobby off watching CJs Aquariums videos on youtube, he had a 45 gallon JBJ. I'd check those out

 

[Super Fly]

If you r looking to save $ and want to get the most bang for the buck, I'd suggest looking at used setup especially for a 1st tank. There r always people upgrading or getting out of hobby and some really good deals out there.

 

[Super Fly]

ALso if u r the type who'll enjoy DIY and the set up process, then I'd stay away from AIO.

 

[Reefrookie220]

Man I think honestly that you’ll be happy with the 54g pnp from SCA. The skimmer included is great, and the sump and pump combo will allow for your shiny new gadget addiction(yes it’s inevitable) the price point is nice with starphire glass and the frameless modern look.

Honestly SCA give you all the room you need for your trial and error. Where as redsea is pretty much planned out for you. In the end it’s the choice I’d make personally.

 

[VSVP bet]

DIY is the way to go. Honestly, thats all I do at this point. I built my own 33L AIO for around $225... Additionally, I am in the process of constructing a 125 gallon (I am drilling it myself, making my own sump system, and stand) and im guessing it will run me at around $600 (excluding pumps, lights, skimmer). Full system costs will be around $1200 - $1500.

That being said, if you bought a non tempered 75 gallon aquarium, drilled it youself, bought glass and constructed a sump system. Im guessing you will sepnd around $300 (maybe), and far less if you go to petco $ per gallon sale to purchase the 75. Just make sure you buy an aquarium with nontempered sides.

Not sure how handy you are, but committing to DIY has allowed me to maximize size and minimize price. I will never see myself buying a name brand AIO or tank system ever agin. Nothing wrong with buying IMs or Red Seas, just not for me.

 

[Hemmdog]

I started with a biocube a year ago. I’ve already upgraded to a 90 gal. Save yourself buying two tanks and buy the tank you really want from the get go.

 

[UM Aquarium Club]

Personally I'd jump in at the smaller size point unless you're 100% settled and are willing to make the investment. If you're planning to move in the next couple years or don't want as much continual investment as you add on more things it can just be easier to start smaller. A benefit of starting a bit smaller is that if you decide later you want to upgrade like @Hemmdog did you could always use the smaller tank as a QT or holding tank for new additions.

 

[Hemmdog]

Personally I'd jump in at the smaller size point unless you're 100% settled and are willing to make the investment. If you're planning to move in the next couple years or don't want as much continual investment as you add on more things it can just be easier to start smaller. A benefit of starting a bit smaller is that if you decide later you want to upgrade like @Hemmdog did you could always use the smaller tank as a QT or holding tank for new additions.

And that’s exactly what I do with my biocube .

 

[robodude666]

Thank you all for the comments! I do understand that reef keeping can be an expensive hobby. From various threads and YouTube videos they seem to average to $150-$250 per gallon for the equipment and live stock. Does that seem about right?

Red sea, water box = $$$. They are good tanks, but as a starting point, i would start with a cheaper set up. Cadlight is one or yet finding a used reefer online.

Lee, have you used Cadlight tanks before? They seem to fit somewhere between SCA and Red Sea in quality; is that correct?

I have the 50 gallon SCA PNP, there's a lot of people on here that do if you want to search build threads.

How do you like the stand? I'm a bit concerned using MDF. I've seen a few people siliconing the seems and applying primer to seal the MDF stand to prevent water damage. I've also seen a number of threads on R2R where people mention SCA's quality isn't the best, though has great customer service.

I haven't had an AIO, but I did kinda start the hobby off watching CJs Aquariums videos on youtube, he had a 45 gallon JBJ.

I came across his YouTube channel yesterday and binge watched his JBJ 45 and SCA 120 videos. Him and several other YouTubers though mentioned they upgraded from the JBJ 45 (or other AIO) because it limited what equipment they can use. I unfortunately haven't seen many in-depth videos or channels focused around 40-50 gallon SCA or Red Sea tanks, and any build threads I've seen only had a few initial pictures posted.

Man I think honestly that you’ll be happy with the 54g pnp from SCA. The skimmer included is great, and the sump and pump combo will allow for your shiny new gadget addiction(yes it’s inevitable) the price point is nice with starphire glass and the frameless modern look.

(See above) I was seriously considering SCA until I started reading threads about people questioning the tank and stand's quality.

DIY is the way to go. Honestly, thats all I do at this point.

I definitely like the freedom DIY offers, but at this point in my life (just bought my first house a few years ago, and have limited tools) I'm not too certain it's the right option for me yet. Maybe in the future once I have more net worth, tools, and spare cash to experiment with.

Personally I'd jump in at the smaller size point unless you're 100% settled and are willing to make the investment. If you're planning to move in the next couple years or don't want as much continual investment as you add on more things it can just be easier to start smaller. A benefit of starting a bit smaller is that if you decide later you want to upgrade like @Hemmdog did you could always use the smaller tank as a QT or holding tank for new additions.

I would love to move, as my current house doesn't really have enough wall space for all of the tanks I want but I'm realistically 5-7 years away from being able to move again. I have considered starting with an AIO and converting it to a QT in the future.

Currently the only two or three places in my living room an aquarium would fit limits me to ~35-36" in width. Because of this, I'm strongly considering starting with the "best" tank I can start with and keeping it there. I was planning on upgrading my 55 gallon freshwater Planted Tank to a 75-90 gallon and bringing it into my office, which gives me that living room space for a reef tank... but I do have the option instead to bringup the reef tank in my office and gives me more horizontal space. Realistically, that might be a better option since reefs tend to have more equipment and can benefit from a wider area -- whether it's by going for a larger stand or getting a cabinet to put next to the tank for equipment. I technically can bring both into my office, but am concerned it might overload my single 15A circuit.

 

[cracker]

Welcome t0 R2R Robo. Plenty of Folks here know more about AIO tanks than I do !

 

[jp_75]

save the money and go with red sea-quality! tons of happy people!

 

[Reefrookie220]

Thank you all for the comments! I do understand that reef keeping can be an expensive hobby. From various threads and YouTube videos they seem to average to $150-$250 per gallon for the equipment and live stock. Does that seem about right?



Lee, have you used Cadlight tanks before? They seem to fit somewhere between SCA and Red Sea in quality; is that correct?



How do you like the stand? I'm a bit concerned using MDF. I've seen a few people siliconing the seems and applying primer to seal the MDF stand to prevent water damage. I've also seen a number of threads on R2R where people mention SCA's quality isn't the best, though has great customer service.



I came across his YouTube channel yesterday and binge watched his JBJ 45 and SCA 120 videos. Him and several other YouTubers though mentioned they upgraded from the JBJ 45 (or other AIO) because it limited what equipment they can use. I unfortunately haven't seen many in-depth videos or channels focused around 40-50 gallon SCA or Red Sea tanks, and any build threads I've seen only had a few initial pictures posted.



(See above) I was seriously considering SCA until I started reading threads about people questioning the tank and stand's quality.



I definitely like the freedom DIY offers, but at this point in my life (just bought my first house a few years ago, and have limited tools) I'm not too certain it's the right option for me yet. Maybe in the future once I have more net worth, tools, and spare cash to experiment with.



I would love to move, as my current house doesn't really have enough wall space for all of the tanks I want but I'm realistically 5-7 years away from being able to move again. I have considered starting with an AIO and converting it to a QT in the future.

Currently the only two or three places in my living room an aquarium would fit limits me to ~35-36" in width. Because of this, I'm strongly considering starting with the "best" tank I can start with and keeping it there. I was planning on upgrading my 55 gallon freshwater Planted Tank to a 75-90 gallon and bringing it into my office, which gives me that living room space for a reef tank... but I do have the option instead to bringup the reef tank in my office and gives me more horizontal space. Realistically, that might be a better option since reefs tend to have more equipment and can benefit from a wider area -- whether it's by going for a larger stand or getting a cabinet to put next to the tank for equipment. I technically can bring both into my office, but am concerned it might overload my single 15A circuit.

Valid point on the stand, I opted to build my own stand. The quality of the tank is not questionable IMO. Honestly I was in your same situation, just couldn’t justify the money for the redsea system.

After working the retail end of the hobby, where my sales numbers affected my pay, it was nice to sell those redsea systems to keep the check rolling, but I found that the average hobbyist just walking in the door wasn’t going to swing that for a system that size.

Regardless of building materials, no stand was meant to be wet. The cost of a tube of caulk, and a can of primer vs the big jump in price for the redsea is the debate at that point.

Also, ever after talking with the redsea rep numerous times, I can’t get behind the from 1/2in of the tank hanging over the stand doors virtually unsupported. Just an opinion.

 

[Leicobra]

Lee, have you used Cadlight tanks before? They seem to fit somewhere between SCA and Red Sea in quality; is that correct?
yes, i am using one right now. I choose it because I want a big sump for this setup. red sea and sac also are quality tanks, but you need to consider what tank fit your goal. in my case. not only the cad light gives me more room under the cabinet, also fits my budget right.

 

[mattzang]

How do you like the stand? I'm a bit concerned using MDF. I've seen a few people siliconing the seems and applying primer to seal the MDF stand to prevent water damage. I've also seen a number of threads on R2R where people mention SCA's quality isn't the best, though has great customer service.

I came across his YouTube channel yesterday and binge watched his JBJ 45 and SCA 120 videos. Him and several other YouTubers though mentioned they upgraded from the JBJ 45 (or other AIO) because it limited what equipment they can use. I unfortunately haven't seen many in-depth videos or channels focused around 40-50 gallon SCA or Red Sea tanks, and any build threads I've seen only had a few initial pictures posted.

(See above) I was seriously considering SCA until I started reading threads about people questioning the tank and stand's quality.

I don't know about the MDF stand, my LFS had the combo for $600 so I upgraded to a taller stand made of real wood for $100 more.

as far as the tank quality goes, it's kinda hard to compare to a red sea, I saw a lot of people saying they weren't fans of their silicone work and what not, but my tank seems great. Starfire glass on all 3 sides, works for me. I didn't notice any issues on my tank and it has been running for about 5 months, so ask me again in a few years and we'll see on longevity. FWIW I emailed the owner of SCA seeing if I could get an even better deal on the tank, which I couldn't lol, but he responded quickly and seemed nice. There's an SCA tank group on facebook that the owner posts on occasionally.

also if memory serves if you watch the CJ 120 series to the ending, he says he kinda regrets getting that tank and wanted to go back down to 45-60 range since they're just easier to manage. Just something to ponder

 

[robodude666]

Matt, your LFS had the SCA 50 w/ solid-wood stand? Was it an SCA stand, or some other stand? I didn't think SCA makes solid-wood stands for anything smaller than their 100 gallon systems.

I also JUST noticed that Red Sea has a v3 sump which I like quite a bit. Really like the layout of Sharisnewreeftank's build. Hmm...