Freshwater Frustration

[Indytraveler83]

Interesting notes all around Peace River, gives me a lot to think about.

I can think of a lot of different things to try, including the conductivity meter. But I'm also sort of at a hard stop moment with this setup. I've replaced filtration 3 times, I've switched from a mostly fake plant/decor setup (very early on) to a heavily planted setup. I've switched out almost every imaginable piece of equipment, decor and media at some point. I used to do water changes much more often, and have tried tons of different ways to do it, but the result is always the same, and the culprit hasn't surfaced yet. I'm beginning to think this thing is cursed.

Both of my major suspects from this thread (water hardness and source of animals) would potentially dictate a stocking change, albiet major or minor.

I need this setup to be fun and interesting. It has reached the point it is just an expensive chore. And I'm not really sure what to do to make that happen...

 

[Mjrenz]

When I had freshwater planted tanks I used rodi water and mixed in seachem equilibrium, acid buffer, and alkaline buffer to get the water where I wanted it. After I first started this I found I was having ph swings but after adding some sphagnum moss to my filter and some driftwood to the tank everything stabilized and did very well. Just my 2 cents to this conversation :)

 

[AiKkz]

Ditch the plants and go with rocks and caves with some peacock cichlids especially the OB’s!!!

 

[OutsideBrian]

Have you used the planted tank forums? When I was keeping planted tanks they were helpful. If I recall I was using small power heads to help keep flow up and reduce dead zones of water. Injecting co2 helped grow plants but was a balancing act with nothing to control it like an apex unit has in the saltwater world. That alone caused ph swings that were not fair to fish. But I was usually able to keep gouramis, tetras, Cory’s and ottos.

 

[OutsideBrian]

Ditch the plants and go with rocks and caves with some peacock cichlids especially the OB’s!!!

For that matter go African cichlids. Nothing compares to a red empress, a auloncari hongi, some yellow labs etc

 

[PYRU]

I didn't read the whole thing but it sounds to me like you're trying to keep soft water fish in hard water. I know a guy having the same problem with well water and a juruense catfish.

Central Americans come from harder water maybe give them a shot if you want planted....or cut your water with rodi.

 

[Indytraveler83]

Have you used the planted tank forums? When I was keeping planted tanks they were helpful. If I recall I was using small power heads to help keep flow up and reduce dead zones of water. Injecting co2 helped grow plants but was a balancing act with nothing to control it like an apex unit has in the saltwater world. That alone caused ph swings that were not fair to fish. But I was usually able to keep gouramis, tetras, Cory’s and ottos.

I’ve found little to no help in the planted tank forums. Far more suggestions and advice in this thread alone about a topic that’s not even a reef (you all rock!!!)

 

[Indytraveler83]

Now that I’m thinking about it, is it possible I have an X factor I’m not seeing?

This tank has had bad luck from the start. Maybe it isn’t luck? Is there maybe a chemical leeching into the tank from something? Could the plants be leeching something, or the tank seal? Something else I’m not seeing?

 

[Mjrenz]

Now that I’m thinking about it, is it possible I have an X factor I’m not seeing?

This tank has had bad luck from the start. Maybe it isn’t luck? Is there maybe a chemical leeching into the tank from something? Could the plants be leeching something, or the tank seal? Something else I’m not seeing?

I guess anything is possible but my best guess would be the water or a disease. Unfortunately I have far less knowledge about freshwater fish disease than saltwater

 

[LadyMac]

I know of a wonderful forum you can go to to ask if you’re interested. You can pm so we don’t put it here if it’s allowed.

Do you dose carbon or co2? You could be having some major ph swings and not realize. Your flying fox...there are two types. Chinese algae eaters and Siamese. If he’s a true flying fox that’s great. But he needs friends. If he’s chinese, they do go after other fish. They will stress them to death especially tetras.

 

[sfin52]

I'm posting this to the lounge as it doesn't really apply to reef keeping...

I've had a planted tank for 3 years. Keeping the plants is easy. For whatever reason, keeping the fish is brutally hard and discouraging. Bland, colorless fish are easy to keep, but anything even remotely interesting seems to die without warning and without symptoms. This setup has been 3 years of setbacks and frustration, regular fish deaths and the only thing I have to show for it is a moderately cool aquascape and some huge freshwater plants.

What really confuses me is that my 54 gal reef tank has gone significantly EASIER than that. Saltwater is more work, and more expensive for sure, I'm not saying fresh is more complicated. But... if fish are sick, they tend to show symptoms, and with tons of different water parameters to monitor and corals to help clue me in, sort to speak, I find it EASIER to keep my reef stable, then the planted tank. If my reef is sick, I can always figure out WHY. If my planted tank is sick, I just play a guessing game till they stop dying.

I'm not posting parameters or specifics because this is reef2reef not a freshwater help site. Thankfully, this place has been a thousand times more helpful than any freshwater forum or group I've tried to consult. So I have 2 questions:

1) Has anyone else experienced this? Saltwater being easier than fresh?

2) What would you do if you were me? I'm at the point of frustration that I'm contemplating a complete teardown of this tank. Its a 55 gallon, and would need filters replaced to go saltwater, lights replaced to go reef. Would you try again? African cichlids? FOWLR? 2nd reef? Trash the whole thing and start over with a different setup altogether?

I loose more freshwater fish than I have ever lost sw. In lfs they are treated very different as well. Tanks are over stocked and not as well kept. It's almost like fw fish are disposalable. its crazy.

 

[LadyMac]

I loose more freshwater fish than I have ever lost sw. In lfs they are treated very different as well. Tanks are over stocked and not as well kept. It's almost like fw fish are disposalable. its crazy.

A lot of places do see them as disposable :( I keep mostly bettas. I buy from other hobbyists simply so I don’t have to go through the lfs.

 

[Indytraveler83]

I know of a wonderful forum you can go to to ask if you’re interested. You can pm so we don’t put it here if it’s allowed.

Do you dose carbon or co2? You could be having some major ph swings and not realize. Your flying fox...there are two types. Chinese algae eaters and Siamese. If he’s a true flying fox that’s great. But he needs friends. If he’s chinese, they do go after other fish. They will stress them to death especially tetras.

If you’d pm me that forum I would appreciate it!

And yes I’ve got 3 true Siamese flying fox. Definitely not the Chinese algae eaters

 

[Indytraveler83]

For those that are interested in the outcome on this one, here’s the theory:

I had been stocking stereotypical planted tank fish- which are native to extremely soft and acidic water. Essentially Amazonian fish.

Not only is my water high in ph, but my water is hard with high amounts of calcium and magnesium. Essentially reef water without the salt...

While some fish can adjust to higher ph and higher alk, the dissolved compounds still enter the body via osmosis, which they likely cannot adapt to. Short term they are ok, but long term it can lead to organ failure (sudden unexplained death).

Combine that with many of these animals coming from extremely low quality origins, and it’s a time bomb. My solution is to switch to hard water (or at least adaptable) species, and to try and source higher quality animals.

And this is why I find saltwater to be “easier.” In keeping a reef, we measure a ton of things and tend to intervene earlier. We also have access to much higher quality livestock.

Now that I’ve figured out the problem (I think)... the hard part is deciding on what animals/habitat to stock...