Frustrated with test kits which do I believe

[brandon429]

ps

I see a chunk of coralline live rock in the sump how much of that is in this tank

Coralline = skip cycle rocks = already has full bacteria. Coralline equals nitrfier bacteria. That one chunk isn't enough to run all the feed and bioload so it's likely there's more in the loop somewhere here

 

[Rscott]

Hey guys thanks so much for the info.

It’s not live rock although it looks like it. It is Carib Sea life rock that comes painted purple so it looks like coraline

Also. There is not mushroom , what you saw was the purple epoxy on the rock work. The water is clearer today.

Going to test the water today but do as a few suggested and just let it be.

Now that the skimmer is working properly hopefully it will be able to help get some
Extra food out of the tank

Will post back shortly and thanks to everyone for the comments and ideas

 

[Rscott]

Wow o wow
Ok now I’m nervous

Just started
Looking around the tank. There is brown spots all over?

This is not diatoms I suspect??? Is it?

It seems to be mostly in the sand???

 

[KrisReef]

Good news the tank water is clearing. If you’re getting other stuff starting to grow then your ecosystem is developing. Change is normal for biological systems. Look up community succession if you haven’t heard of it before?
& 1 instant bonus:
Let me share here some advice I got in 6 grade; “Don’t worry, that will only get you wrinkles.”

Relax and enjoy the tank as it matures.

 

[Rscott]

Good news the tank water is clearing. If you’re getting other stuff starting to grow then your ecosystem is developing. Change is normal for biological systems. Look up community succession if you haven’t heard of it before?
& 1 instant bonus:
Let me share here some advice I got in 6 grade; “Don’t worry, that will only get you wrinkles.”

Relax and enjoy the tank as it matures.

Thanks

Any ideas what that is all
Of a sudden on the sand?

 

[KrisReef]

Lots of guesses; algae, diatom, dinoflagellate, bacteria. Cyanobacteria, invertebrate hitchhiker?

#reefsquad

 

[Rscott]

Lots of guesses; algae, diatom, dinoflagellate, bacteria. Cyanobacteria, invertebrate hitchhiker?

#reefsquad

I made a new post about it to separate the discussion , dunno if that was ok or not

 

[KrisReef]

Probably a good idea. GL

 

[Dr. Reef]

Most likely your salifert kit is a Nh4 non toxic ammonia kit and not total ammonia nh3+nh4.
If your total ammonia nh3+nh4 kit is showing 1.2 ppm
The equilibrium goes as follows.
In a saltwater at pH of 8.0 nh3 at 0-0.15 will have nh4 at 0.5-1ppm range.
So for your total ammonia kit to show 1.2ppm tells me that salifert kit is not total ammonia.
Didnt read the whole thread but just glanced over the first page.

 

[W1ngz]

Most likely your salifert kit is a Nh4 non toxic ammonia kit and not total ammonia nh3+nh4.
If your total ammonia nh3+nh4 kit is showing 1.2 ppm
The equilibrium goes as follows.
In a saltwater at pH of 8.0 nh3 at 0-0.15 will have nh4 at 0.5-1ppm range.
So for your total ammonia kit to show 1.2ppm tells me that salifert kit is not total ammonia.
Didnt read the whole thread but just glanced over the first page.

The Salifert kits specifically say NH4 on the box. I wonder if the test itself is testing NH4, but the colour development and chart are designed to read a percentage of that to represent the NH3 component. That would make some sense, but you'd think it would be documented somewhere.

 

[W1ngz]

Nope. Total NH3+4 for the salifert. Last line on this page:
https://www.reefs.org/library/testkits/salifert/ammonia-profi-test.pdf

 

[Rscott]

Nope. Total NH3+4 for the salifert. Last line on this page:
https://www.reefs.org/library/testkits/salifert/ammonia-profi-test.pdf

Yes I was looking at this earlier
Trying to figure out if they were testing the same

It appears both kits are testing total ammonia

I’m going to go get yet another fregin test kit tomorrow.

Probably a Red Sea kit as a tie breakeR

It’s really hard to figure this hobby out when I can’t even get accurate test results let alone understand what is going on

 

[SoggyNW]

A bit late to the party but I'll throw in my 2c for future reference. If I have 2 kits that are giving me 2 results on on am unknown quantity the surit's way to find the truth is to measure a known quantity.

1) Make up a few gallons of new salt water and test. For your Zero.

2) Using one of the handy online fish less cycling calculators, use pure ammonia to raise the level in the bucket to a desired level and test again.

3) Step up the ammonia a few times across the range of the test kits. Test and record results.

If one of your kits is off you should be able to figure it out pretty quick without ever having to touch your tank.

 

[brandon429]

Life rock is activated after 12 days easily

Another day went by with bioload still alive/ ok that's good sign

 

[Lasse]

Most likely your salifert kit is a Nh4 non toxic ammonia kit and not total ammonia nh3+nh4.
If your total ammonia nh3+nh4 kit is showing 1.2 ppm
The equilibrium goes as follows.
In a saltwater at pH of 8.0 nh3 at 0-0.15 will have nh4 at 0.5-1ppm range.
So for your total ammonia kit to show 1.2ppm tells me that salifert kit is not total ammonia.
Didnt read the whole thread but just glanced over the first page.

All ammonia colorimetric tests that I know about (with exception of Sea Chems only NH3 tests/ammonia alert – that´s probably not are true colorimetric) test the total ammonia (NH3/NH4 – ammoniac/ammonium) It must – because the test method in reality only reads true NH3 and the colour scale convert it back to an approximation of total ammonia (NH3/NH4). The pH of the test sample is raised to over 12 and all NH4 turns over to NH3. The converted NH3 and the samples NH3 in the first hand is analysed and the colour scale make it back to ammonia. You can do this way because 1 ppm NH3 correspond to 0.94 ppm NH4

IMO – the hobby tests according to ammonia contain so much approximations and possible fault that´s they should not be used in order to systems with living organisms. One exception is probably Sea Chem ammonia alert and test relaying on the same principles as that test (what I know – it is only Sea Chem products that does that).


Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

If you use a kit that respond in total ammonia and know your pH - you can use the tool I have posted in this thread in order to see what´s your levels of toxic NH3 really are

Edit - link works now

Sincerely Lasse

 

[brandon429]

Lasse don't you agree that it is required fish will react poorly to constant free ammonia in the water at the pH a reef tank runs at


It was stated in a prior thread that no mechanism exists to be just shy of the required surface area to leave 4% of a given bioload unoxidized

It is an all-or-nothing scenario there is no setting in which a tail end of ammonia stays free and doesn't cause visual harm to the system it's the same thing as kidney failure that's why it causes harm to respiring organisms when constant.

Insufficient surface area to carry a given fish bioload means the whole system crashes it doesn't work just 90% for example... all or nothing

Several posts in the chemistry forum using seneye monitors reveal just how quickly free ammonia is taken up in the reef tank. It's scrubbed to the thousandths ppm usually and I don't recall a consistent reading that remained even in the hundredths ppm I'll go back and re-read just to be sure

I believe it is true that not one single example exists in all of reefing for a seneye to backup consistent free ammonia in the tenths in a reef tank with fish in it. I have seen the posts that show a brief spike with a death or a heavy fish feeding but I'm talking days on end constant tail end unoxidized ammonia

Appreciated reading your description of how those titration test kits are working that helps to understand variation

 

[Rscott]

are you guys still speaking English lol

Speak noooob please

I might go try and find a different brand test kit today for a tie breaker

I am setting up a QT tank today so in an emergency I could move the fish if needed

I have still not put the prime in

For some reason I have it in my head that prime will ruin things.
One person on this post suggested that above

I don’t understand what the adverse reactions of the prime are

But if I put it in I won’t be able
To test for ammonia no?

 

[Lasse]

Lasse don't you agree that it is required fish will react poorly to constant free ammonia in the water at the pH a reef tank runs at

It depends on - because the amount of free NH3 of total ammonia NH3 +NH4 is strongly depended of pH and are changing directly if the pH rises or reduces. If you have 0.25 ppm total ammonia – the level of free (toxic) will rise from 0.01 ppm at pH 8 to around 0,03 ppm at pH 8.5 (at 25 degree C – 77 degree F). None of the ask for panic (IMO)

Sincerely Lasse

 

[W1ngz]

I am setting up a QT tank today so in an emergency I could move the fish if needed

QT tanks are awesome, good job! But...
There's no emergency here. If there were, at the levels of ammonia the fluval test is indicating, your fish would be showing distress, or be dead.

I don’t understand what the adverse reactions of the prime are

If you can post the source of your information we can help you make sense of it. Prime has been known to cause false-positive ammonia readings for a while, but it won't "ruin" things long term.

All in all, everything you've posted can be solved by just leaving the tank alone. If you worry every time something twitches, you're going to grow tired fast of your tank.
For the sake of your sanity, cut back your feeding a little, and otherwise, just let things be.