Gen 5 design flaws and reliability concerns

[SamsReef]

Hello folks,

I have always been a fan of radion fixtures and run 7 fixtures over my DT. Read my gushing review here - https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...on-mixed-reef-hobby-passion-obsession.945774/

This has all changed in last six months as the gen 5s have started failing one after another and the cost of repair is astronomical. $900 for 2.5 yrs is a poor value for money.

I have 4 gen 4 and 3 gen 5 fixtures. The gen 4s run as a champ. Gen 5 (all purchased in 2020), starting failing we seller this year. The first one failed six months back. Ecotech did get back to me fast but apparently both led cluster had the driver failed at the same time. Ecotech also sent me pictures of water damage when the fixture has been had water damage and sits 8 inches plus on an open top tank. I can only consider this a design flaw where the integrated circuit board is not ventilated properly. They offered a new fixture for ~$600, which is their wholesale price making a regular profit off this transaction.

Now my second fixture has failed. I would like to hear if others are having similar issues with gen 5 design (gen 6 has the same design). Question in front of me is - should I keep drowning $600 replacing these dud fixture that lasts 2-3 year or is it time to move on.

Looking forward to hearing. I will post pics of my setup.

Sam

 

[ninjamyst]

Get more gen 4s for about $300 used. I am still running my gen 4s and have a spare in the closet just in case.

 

[Camaro Show Corals]

I’ve had nothing but problems with Gen5s I still have 3 gen5 XR15 pro’s sitting around that have randomly died I need to send in. I haven’t had as many issues with my xr30s but never had a single issue with any gen4s. Coming from a vendor this is a problem as I need reliability when it comes to all my equipment with serious $$$$$$ sunk into corals and equipment.

 

[SamsReef]

Get more gen 4s for about $300 used. I am still running my gen 4s and have a spare in the closet just in case.

Thank you for proving your input. I will keep using the gen 4s that I have but won’t add more 5 yr+ fixture. I am really hoping Ecotech does a better job in fixing these devices, which are failing without any user error. It really means two things;

1) fix the daily components
2) don’t try to make money off these faulty design and components. Fix the device at cost

$600 is not at cost. It’s not too much to ask I am not asking to be fixed for free. Hope, this thread can get enough support and Ecotech continues to be reliable company. I have a MP40, which is over 10 yrs old and works like a charm.

Let’s make radion great again.

Sam

 

[SamsReef]

I’ve had nothing but problems with Gen5s I still have 3 gen5 XR15 pro’s sitting around that have randomly died I need to send in. I haven’t had as many issues with my xr30s but never had a single issue with any gen4s. Coming from a vendor this is a problem as I need reliability when it comes to all my equipment with serious $$$$$$ sunk into corals and equipment.

I would like to hear from Ecotech.

Why are Gen 5s failing and what are they doing to make this right (design and cost of repair). Answer cannot be to make more money off it.

Ecotech- Please respond.

Sam

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

You're not going to get ecotech to enter into a public conversation about why they chose to do what they do.

I can offer some perspective from my point of view.

The part where they discovered water damage is more than likely the reasoning behind the large repair/refurbished price tag.

You say it never got wet, they're convinced that it has.

It seems like your conclusion is that the design of the fixture is why they saw evidence of water damage.

That's a valid conclusion from your perspective. You also have to consider that they see more lights for warranty/replace/repair/refurbish on a daily basis and if what you concluded is true then they'd see it on a regular basis.

I've done quite a few radion repairs for locals, and I recently got 3 gen4 pros from a guy that clearly had corrosion from saltwater. He swore that it never touched saltwater. I have zero reason to believe he was being deceitful but at the same time I couldn't avoid the evidence that was clearly there.

Also, I recently upgraded 2 gen5s to gen6s. And I can report that the electronics had zero signs of corrosion. And I use the rms mounting rails, distance being roughly 8" from the water.

Perhaps there other factors that aren't being considered for your lights to have signs of corrosion.

Either way, I'd suspect that ecotech doesn't have convincing evidence to conclude that the design is at fault, otherwise they would've rapidly come out with gen7 with major overhauls in how the electronics are stored.

In your situation, I get it. It's hard to swallow, especially with the amount invested in these fixtures. I don't know how they came up with the repair cost, but it's safe to say that they're not trying to capitalize off your misfortune.

The fixtures are damaged and you're left with hard choices. If sticking with ecotech brand, you will either need to purchase new fixtures or pay their price for the repair/refurbish.

From ecotechs perspective, giving you an option to make you whole without the cost of a new fixture is reasonable.

 

[rtparty]

I would like to hear from Ecotech.

Why are Gen 5s failing and what are they doing to make this right (design and cost of repair). Answer cannot be to make more money off it.

Ecotech- Please respond.

Sam

They haven’t been on here in quite some time. Likely more than a year. They won’t respond

 

[Mattiejay6]

Hello folks,

I have always been a fan of radion fixtures and run 7 fixtures over my DT. Read my gushing review here - https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...on-mixed-reef-hobby-passion-obsession.945774/

This has all changed in last six months as the gen 5s have started failing one after another and the cost of repair is astronomical. $900 for 2.5 yrs is a poor value for money.

I have 4 gen 4 and 3 gen 5 fixtures. The gen 4s run as a champ. Gen 5 (all purchased in 2020), starting failing we seller this year. The first one failed six months back. Ecotech did get back to me fast but apparently both led cluster had the driver failed at the same time. Ecotech also sent me pictures of water damage when the fixture has been had water damage and sits 8 inches plus on an open top tank. I can only consider this a design flaw where the integrated circuit board is not ventilated properly. They offered a new fixture for ~$600, which is their wholesale price making a regular profit off this transaction.

Now my second fixture has failed. I would like to hear if others are having similar issues with gen 5 design (gen 6 has the same design). Question in front of me is - should I keep drowning $600 replacing these dud fixture that lasts 2-3 year or is it time to move on.

Looking forward to hearing. I will post pics of my setup.

Sam

this company no longer cares since they sold out.. they are not for the reefers

 

[Fishingandreefing]

Get more gen 4s for about $300 used. I am still running my gen 4s and have a spare in the closet just in case.

Found them higher quality and I got spare as well. No need to chase the hype for g5 or g6.

 

[SamsReef]

You're not going to get ecotech to enter into a public conversation about why they chose to do what they do.

I can offer some perspective from my point of view.

The part where they discovered water damage is more than likely the reasoning behind the large repair/refurbished price tag.

You say it never got wet, they're convinced that it has.

It seems like your conclusion is that the design of the fixture is why they saw evidence of water damage.

That's a valid conclusion from your perspective. You also have to consider that they see more lights for warranty/replace/repair/refurbish on a daily basis and if what you concluded is true then they'd see it on a regular basis.

I've done quite a few radion repairs for locals, and I recently got 3 gen4 pros from a guy that clearly had corrosion from saltwater. He swore that it never touched saltwater. I have zero reason to believe he was being deceitful but at the same time I couldn't avoid the evidence that was clearly there.

Also, I recently upgraded 2 gen5s to gen6s. And I can report that the electronics had zero signs of corrosion. And I use the rms mounting rails, distance being roughly 8" from the water.

Perhaps there other factors that aren't being considered for your lights to have signs of corrosion.

Either way, I'd suspect that ecotech doesn't have convincing evidence to conclude that the design is at fault, otherwise they would've rapidly come out with gen7 with major overhauls in how the electronics are stored.

In your situation, I get it. It's hard to swallow, especially with the amount invested in these fixtures. I don't know how they came up with the repair cost, but it's safe to say that they're not trying to capitalize off your misfortune.

The fixtures are damaged and you're left with hard choices. If sticking with ecotech brand, you will either need to purchase new fixtures or pay their price for the repair/refurbish.

From ecotechs perspective, giving you an option to make you whole without the cost of a new fixture is reasonable.

Thank you for taking time for writing a detailed input. I wanted to share more because the whole thing is anything but reasonable.

Here is a picture of the damage that was shared.

if the fixture had any accidents with water, it would not be just this small area. Seems like these ICs are not protected in a way to be on top of even an open tank. They know it but choose to hide behind disclaimers.

And then the price to fix it. They are making money off this transaction. How is that reasonable? They sell wholesale to retailers for less than that. Pathetic by any accounts.

Sam

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Thank you for taking time for writing a detailed input. I wanted to share more because the whole thing is anything but reasonable.

Here is a picture of the damage that was shared.

if the fixture had any accidents with water, it would not be just this small area. Seems like these ICs are not protected in a way to be on top of even an open tank. They know it but choose to hide behind disclaimers.

And then the price to fix it. They are making money off this transaction. How is that reasonable? They sell wholesale to retailers for less than that. Pathetic by any accounts.

Sam

Ohhh...eee.

Based on just that photo, I get your frustration and reasoning.

 

[SamsReef]

Ohhh...eee.

Based on just that photo, I get your frustration and reasoning.

Thanks man. I am sure I will hear something similar from Ecotech for the Current fixture as well. There has to be a better way to handle this long term.

Sam

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Thanks man. I am sure I will hear something similar from Ecotech for the Current fixture as well. There has to be a better way to handle this long term.

Sam

So my opinion is just that... my opinion.

The bottom line is the light stopped working and they seemed to hang their hat on water damage. I'm sure there's a logical reason that wasn't conveyed here.

At this point, because it's out of warranty it's their prerogative to replace it for free.

I'd be upset too... one thing that might be worth doing is to get the fixtures back and contact fix reef. That guy has plenty of experience with radion repairs. I can't attest to his pricing but if you want it fixed right, he's the guy to go to.

On here his name is @_AV

It'll be worth reaching out to him.

 

[SamsReef]

So my opinion is just that... my opinion.

The bottom line is the light stopped working and they seemed to hang their hat on water damage. I'm sure there's a logical reason that wasn't conveyed here.

At this point, because it's out of warranty it's their prerogative to replace it for free.

I'd be upset too... one thing that might be worth doing is to get the fixtures back and contact fix reef. That guy has plenty of experience with radion repairs. I can't attest to his pricing but if you want it fixed right, he's the guy to go to.

On here his name is @_AV

It'll be worth reaching out to him.

Thank you. I will reach out to @_AV

Just to be clear. I am not looking for a free replacement. What I was hoping for are the following:
1) Acknowledge and fix design issue in upcoming models rather than blaming it on user error
2) fix the fixture or replace at cost and not try to make money off it.

Hope it’s a reasonable ask

Sam

 

[_AV]

The issue in the picture is probably the second most common failure in radions behind the UV leds burn out.
I have seen a lot of it in G4s and now starting to see more and more in the G5/G6s that are coming in. And it's an obvious one too: the green stuff on the LED cluster is oxidized copper leaching from the copper traces behind the mask. Once enough of it comes out, the trace is practically gone and the light will also not work.

As for the reason, in nearly all cases I found salt creep around the screw holes. Salt slowly seeps under the lens, stays between the lens and the cluster and slowly eats away at the protective mask, which is not always perfectly laid or gets damaged during assembly. It only needs a small hole on the side of the trace to get in and then take out the copper.

I can say a lot of good things about the radion main board quality and design. Especially comparing with Kessils. But their UV leds and the protective mask on the cluster has been a long standing issue.

Ecotech treats this as a water damage problem, which is not covered by warranty.

Very few companies in this hobby actually acknowledge any large scale issues with their products. Apex EB832 and Kessil A360X are the two prime examples. It'd take a class action to make them pay even then the resolution would be that they won't acknowledge any wrongdoing.

I discuss these issues here:

 

[Shannon Califf]

What is wrong with the 360x

 

[_AV]

What is wrong with the 360x

It's a topic for a very long article and an even longer video, which I still need to find time to get to.
This is the only model, which I receive in multiples nearly daily for over a year now. Wild stuff.
I'll get to write about soon. I promise.

 

[CoralB]

Hello folks,

I have always been a fan of radion fixtures and run 7 fixtures over my DT. Read my gushing review here - https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...on-mixed-reef-hobby-passion-obsession.945774/

This has all changed in last six months as the gen 5s have started failing one after another and the cost of repair is astronomical. $900 for 2.5 yrs is a poor value for money.

I have 4 gen 4 and 3 gen 5 fixtures. The gen 4s run as a champ. Gen 5 (all purchased in 2020), starting failing we seller this year. The first one failed six months back. Ecotech did get back to me fast but apparently both led cluster had the driver failed at the same time. Ecotech also sent me pictures of water damage when the fixture has been had water damage and sits 8 inches plus on an open top tank. I can only consider this a design flaw where the integrated circuit board is not ventilated properly. They offered a new fixture for ~$600, which is their wholesale price making a regular profit off this transaction.

Now my second fixture has failed. I would like to hear if others are having similar issues with gen 5 design (gen 6 has the same design). Question in front of me is - should I keep drowning $600 replacing these dud fixture that lasts 2-3 year or is it time to move on.

Looking forward to hearing. I will post pics of my setup.

Sam

I’ve had the same gen 5’s since they came out and have never had a issue except only every once in a while I’ll have to re-sync them because the turn on and shut off times will stray . Other than that no issues . Sorry to hear your having troubles .

 

[rtparty]

It's a topic for a very long article and an even longer video, which I still need to find time to get to.
This is the only model, which I receive in multiples nearly daily for over a year now. Wild stuff.
I'll get to write about soon. I promise.

The amount of Kessils I see fail around 2 years old is nuts. It will be interesting to see what you have found

 

[BaliReefBox]

Bugger, I have just bought 4 XR30 gen 5 and they were discounted as the new model is out. Having said that, its still aroung AUD$4000. I would be hoping they last for more than 2-3 years for that $$$ outlay.