GOVERMENT SHoT DOWN

[GHill762]

You ask American people if they support obamacare and they are more than likely against it yet call it health care reform or by
It's true name and people overwhelmingly support it. It's like talking to a wall with tea party types. If you don't want to follow the laws your elected representives enact then go find a new country. Like Iran, the religious backed extremist govt it seems most teapublicans want. Don't you think Jesus would be in favor of affordable health care instead of for tax breaks for wealthy corporations?

if you want progressive social programs go to a different country. This country was never intended to be run like Europe.

So you're going to complain about tax breaks, but then when there aren't tax breaks and companies leave the US for more business friendly countries you'll complain that the evil companies are shipping jobs overseas. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

BTW, take some accounting/finance/business classes, corporations don't really pay taxes, the consumer does, it's another backdoor tax out of your wallet, at the same time lowering a company's ability to be price competitive..

 

[CoryC]

So you don't like social security and fire police and ambulance services and road and other public works like clean water? Like I said we pay more in taxes than countries w social medicine. And people from those countries run home if they need major medical care

 

[GHill762]

So you don't like social security and fire police and ambulance services and road and other public works like clean water? Like I said we pay more in taxes than countries w social medicine. And people from those countries run home if they need major medical care

O rly? Last I knew people came here from places like Canada with failing socialized healthcare because of **** poor healthcare.

 

[CoryC]

Oh yeah? Prove if, they do not come here to pay more for the same care and those programs are not failing. You make all these claims with no proof whatsoever

 

[GHill762]

Oh yeah? Prove if, they do not come here to pay more for the same care and those programs are not failing. You make all these claims with no proof whatsoever

They come here because of long waits and crap healthcare, willing to pay more for good healthcare rather than die because of incompetent government run healthcare.

Ha, where's my proof? You're quick to ask for proof of my points but all I see is bs in your comments, where's your "proof"?

Socialist programs do not work, they don't work because they take away incentive and rob your neighbor. They'll never work.

 

[GHill762]

my opinions on obamacare come from my personal experiences in the financial side of healthcare, as well as what I've come to understand from my family working for big insurance. where does yours come from? main stream media? following false talking points?

 

[CoryC]

Germany has the best model , France has a good one but faces rising costs, England's is still better than ours as well as a menagerie of other european health care systems that are better than ours. Any business journal or medical journal will tell you this. it's an easy search on the internet. canada's health care system may have it's faults but it's STILL better than ours. People don't face "extremely" long waits for procedures, nor do they die waiting on treatment. that happens in america buddy. what makes you think our health care system is good? because you or your family works for a company that profits from arbitrarily high costs? we do not live in a pure example of a captialist society just like no pure examples of socialism exist. we take bits and pieces and form our own union. we've had social programs for OVER A CENTURY. they work fine. the social safety net is not bankrupting our country. crying about people cheating on food stamps while exxon mobil takes 8000 of your tax dollars is just sad and unfortunate.

 

[shred5]

It's a two sided argument with little to no compromise from either side. It is mainly stemming from funding the Affordable Care Act... My short side of it is you cannot fix something that doesn't exist. It isn't perfect, but it has a good baseline to try start doing something about a problem that has been plaguing families (myself included) for years. It needs to be tweaked and adjusted as needed, not abolished and dropped altogether...

I am probably sharing too much right now, but currently for my family I am out of pocket just under $1,000 per month for health insurance (this doesn't count dental or vision) with a fairly high deductible. Under the new plan it looks like I personally will save $500 per month even at the highest available plan. This is a very attractive option and will probably be an attractive option for many others out there.

My largest issue with the shutdown is the people who make the decisions (or decide to not make a decision) still get to keep their perks, paychecks, and other benefits while the people they shut down need to go home and suffer without a paycheck. Those are the people who need the money, they are not the people who go into government to become millionaires. In general contracting there is a bid put out which tells how much the company will charge and when they will be done with the project. If they are not done by the stated date, a penalty fee is incurred by the contracting company which either comes off their gross pay or if payed back to the customer for their failure to meet the deadline. If the government which we elect and technically are supposed to be employed to do a job for us cannot get their stuff together, they should incur a penalty for not completing the job on time which can be paid back to the tax payers or reinvested into a fund to support the American people who will suffer if decisions are not made in a timely manner...

I guess in the end, politicians need to get over their "party ideals" and start working toward what will be good for the American people. Too many are looking out for their own pockets and the pocketbooks of those who lobby for them to be in office. We need more politicians who will argue for the common good and welfare of the American people.

My political rant is now over...

I do not like either party, I have voted both sides of the fence. I vote for whats right and not party or should I say the person who can do the least damage.

It may not be perfect but it is a start, Problem is the republicans are saying flat out no instead of lets work on Obama Care and turn it into something useful.. They did this to Clinton and did nothing for 8 years under Bush while healthcare rose.. They had their chance.

I agree they are holding the whole country hostage over this one thing when there is so much other waste in this country. If Obama care is so bad let it happen and in several years it will fail and the republicans can say hey I told you so and pick up seats. What are they afraid it will succeed? Is that what they are really afraid of.. I just don’t get holding the whole country hostage over one thing when there are so many issues out there. When did the budget become about just about Obama care. If it were just about Obama care he would have not had a second term. .




Another thing why are these politicians on tv grandstanding and not in a room negotiating.


The real scary thing is the debt ceiling.. If they don’t do something we default on bonds. Which would cause a world crisis. Allot of people retirement accounts get wiped out. People that get Social security checks stop receiving them etc. I heard on republican say maybe we need to go over the cliff to teach everyone a lesson? what the heck.. Teach America a lesson? We didn’t create this mess we need to teach these Politicians both Republican and Democrats who are to far right and left they cant get together a lesson and vote them out.

 

[shred5]

O rly? Last I knew people came here from places like Canada with failing socialized healthcare because of **** poor healthcare.

The problem is if nothing is done about healthcare in the U.S. It dont matter how good it is no one will be able to afford it.

I am not saying Obama care is the answer. But something needs to be done and both sides need to work together to make it a good program. We need affordable health care so everyone can afford it not free.

By the way I have several friends who moved to Canada and they say the healthcare is not anything like our politicians are making it out to be and they say it is actually pretty good.

 

[GHill762]

Germany has the best model , France has a good one but faces rising costs, England's is still better than ours as well as a menagerie of other european health care systems that are better than ours. Any business journal or medical journal will tell you this. it's an easy search on the internet. canada's health care system may have it's faults but it's STILL better than ours. People don't face "extremely" long waits for procedures, nor do they die waiting on treatment. that happens in america buddy. what makes you think our health care system is good? because you or your family works for a company that profits from arbitrarily high costs? we do not live in a pure example of a captialist society just like no pure examples of socialism exist. we take bits and pieces and form our own union. we've had social programs for OVER A CENTURY. they work fine. the social safety net is not bankrupting our country. crying about people cheating on food stamps while exxon mobil takes 8000 of your tax dollars is just sad and unfortunate.

Ha! Obama care makes the insurance the winners and the American people losers. Costs are going to rise just like they have been for 3 years, now insurance gets to sell to private individuals rather than using an agent, and all individuals are required to have insurance. Man, sounds like a win for those greedy insurance companies you hate.

If you love foreign social systems so much then leave. Stop mucking up the US with bad policy.

Germany does have good healthcare, I'll give you that.

So you're saying that medicare, medicaid, social security aren't having funding issues? What planet do you live on? Without major overhaul, our generation will never see social security.

 

[Palting]

Germany has the best model , France has a good one but faces rising costs, England's is still better than ours as well as a menagerie of other european health care systems that are better than ours. Any business journal or medical journal will tell you this. it's an easy search on the internet. canada's health care system may have it's faults but it's STILL better than ours. People don't face "extremely" long waits for procedures, nor do they die waiting on treatment. that happens in america buddy. what makes you think our health care system is good? because you or your family works for a company that profits from arbitrarily high costs? we do not live in a pure example of a captialist society just like no pure examples of socialism exist. we take bits and pieces and form our own union. we've had social programs for OVER A CENTURY. they work fine. the social safety net is not bankrupting our country. crying about people cheating on food stamps while exxon mobil takes 8000 of your tax dollars is just sad and unfortunate.

Oh, boy. "we've had social programs for OVER A CENTURY. they work fine. the social safety net is not bankrupting our country." Have you looked at our debt lately? We live in massive debt, and continue to accrue more debt, and the social net is not bankrupting our country? Which country do you live in?

 

[Dusty650]

So... how bout those clownfish... lol :confused:

 

[shred5]

So you're saying that medicare, medicaid, social security aren't having funding issues? What planet do you live on? Without major overhaul, our generation will never see social security.

They have issues because they were doing fine and our government burrowed from them.. If they put the money back and it was allowed to make money like a normal fund it would be fine. But our government saw money they could get their greedy hands on ...

Again both parties are to blame.

 

[shred5]

If you love foreign social systems so much then leave. Stop mucking up the US with bad policy.

I think you should take a step back and leave this thread if you cant handle someone else opinion, that comment was uncalled for. He has a right to his opinion as do you...

 

[CoryC]

I never said both parties werent to blame. but when you heard absurdity, usually it come from the far right. Whether it's about social safety nets, or that this is a "Christian nation" when it never was, or that climate change isnt real, or that abortion is an issue, it's always something to detract from the fact they have no positive discourse to ad to the situation. if obamacare is so bad, then like the other guy said, let it fail then pick up the pieces! it can't bankrupt the country more than two failed wars and endless military spending on our military industrial complex that has gotten us into these budget shortfalls to begin with.

 

[Paul B]

Don't you think Jesus would be in favor of affordable health care instead of for tax breaks for wealthy corporations?

Jesus would love health care and as he has shown by dying for us, he would have been the first one on it and he would not have exempted his close friends, the apostles from joining also. He also would have asked if his followers wanted it and not forced it on them. That's what the Romans would have done, and did, hence, there is no more Roman Empire. Jesus asked that we followed him, he didn't fine us if we didn't. Wealthy corporations (and Obama) are exempt from Obamacare and if even one corporation or one person is exempt, I also want to be exempt. As an American, and a Veteran, (Obama is not) I don't want or need the Government telling me what I can do. If you like having Obama tell you what to do, then those people should embrace Obamacare and leave the rest of us alone.

 

[Dusty650]

Jesus would love health care and as he has shown by dying for us, he would have been the first one on it and he would not have exempted his close friends, the apostles from joining also. He also would have asked if his followers wanted it and not forced it on them. That's what the Romans would have done, and did, hence, there is no more Roman Empire. Jesus asked that we followed him, he didn't fine us if we didn't. Wealthy corporations (and Obama) are exempt from Obamacare and if even one corporation or one person is exempt, I also want to be exempt. As an American, and a Veteran, I don't want or need the Government telling me what I can do. If you like having Obama tell you what to do, then those people should embrace Obamacare and leave the rest of us alone.

I personally think that is the best it has been put so far.

 

[GHill762]

I think you should take a step back and leave this thread if you cant handle someone else opinion, that comment was uncalled for. He has a right to his opinion as do you...

Don't get your panties in a twist. Just making the point that other countries already have those programs, if those programs are what someone is looking for maybe they should go live there for a while, just saying.

 

[CoryC]

so you dont like having the government tell you that you have to pay taxes? or you have to have a license to drive a car? or tell you that you have to send your kids to school? i dont like my tax dollars going to fight foreign wars and support a bloated military which has bases all over the world, i wish that money went to better our education system, but it doesnt.

 

[GHill762]

I never said both parties werent to blame. but when you heard absurdity, usually it come from the far right. Whether it's about social safety nets, or that this is a "Christian nation" when it never was, or that climate change isnt real, or that abortion is an issue, it's always something to detract from the fact they have no positive discourse to ad to the situation. if obamacare is so bad, then like the other guy said, let it fail then pick up the pieces! it can't bankrupt the country more than two failed wars and endless military spending on our military industrial complex that has gotten us into these budget shortfalls to begin with.

Absurdity like comparing the right to keep and bear arms to the "right" to free universal healthcare?

Absurdities like "we have to pass it to know what's in it"?

What absurdities are you talking about? The idiot from the right that said something about women not getting pregnant from ****? - OK that guy was an idiot. Lol