Gramma lying in the sand

[Richard Newman]

Hi All,
I'm not sure what's going on but I'm losing my second fish. First one was sucked into a power head on Friday, but I believe that it may have been weak as there haven't been any changes to the tank in months. Now I have a gramma lying on its side in the sand. Still breathing, but definitely not well. I run carbon and gfo, both changed 10 days ago (going to change it again). I just tested for ammonia, 0 API test, sorry it's all I have for ammonia.

Other parameters are:
Temp 79.3F
Salinity 34.5
Ph 8
Alkalinity 8.1dhk
Nitrate 20 ppm
Phosphate .1
Calcium 440
Magnesium 1400

These have been pretty consistent since the tank was started March 2, 2019, 8months.
I have attached pictures of the gramma. Best I can tell there are no obvious signs of infection, but maybe I'm missing something.
I appreciate any help.
Thanks!

 

[Redfoxtang]

Did you QT before adding to tank? Is he the only fish in system? How long has he been in system?

 

[Richard Newman]

Hi @Redfoxtang,
Sorry that information would have been helpful as well.
Current inhabitants:
1 ocellaris clown (there were two, lost the smaller male on Friday Nov-8) original pair on 3/30
1 watchman goby 4/14
1 firefish 5/24
1 gramma 5/30
1 gba 5/5

8 or so turbo/zebra turbo snails
3 emerald crabs
6 blue legged hermit crabs

handful of corals, zoa, acans, duncan, monti

I did start to dose phyto (~1/2 oz) 5 times a week about 2 weeks ago.

Unfortunately I don't have a QT tank. All fish were drip acclimated prior to entry into the tank. Other than a few new corals and dosing phyto, the tank has been largely stable for the last few months.

Hope this helps.
Thanks!

 

[Redfoxtang]

Hi @Redfoxtang,
Sorry that information would have been helpful as well.
Current inhabitants:
1 ocellaris clown (there were two, lost the smaller male on Friday Nov-8) original pair on 3/30
1 watchman goby 4/14
1 firefish 5/24
1 gramma 5/30
1 gba 5/5

8 or so turbo/zebra turbo snails
3 emerald crabs
6 blue legged hermit crabs

handful of corals, zoa, acans, duncan, monti

I did start to dose phyto (~1/2 oz) 5 times a week about 2 weeks ago.

Unfortunately I don't have a QT tank. All fish were drip acclimated prior to entry into the tank. Other than a few new corals and dosing phyto, the tank has been largely stable for the last few months.

Hope this helps.
Thanks!

Are any other fish showing signs of stress? How about eating? If no signs of parasites are visible it could be flukes. You could depending on how strong he is give him a fresh bath for 4-5 mins to confirm flukes!

 

[Richard Newman]

Well, I believe something was probably going on last week. The smaller clown, firefish and gramma all have been in hiding much more than usual, especially since Friday. As I mentioned earlier the clown was sucked into a power head. But this is the first we've seen the gramma out of the caves since last week. I am unsure when the last time he ate. I did put some food in front of him just now and he wasn't interested. The firefish is acting in a similar fashion, but does come out to eat. At the moment the female clown seems to be okay, as does the goby. Both are acting normal, as far as I can tell.

I can try the freshwater dip as I don't think he'll make it to morning at this point.

 

[Redfoxtang]

If nothing is visible to the eye I would try the dip on him if he’s not gonna make it. How about any flashing from any fish?

 

[Richard Newman]

Hi @Redfoxtang,
Flashing? Aggression from other fish? I've seen him go his own against the female clown, but no aggression that I have witnessed in quite some time. I do work from home so I am able to keep an eye on the tank. Unfortunately we were out of town this weekend so I probably missed something.

I think the freshwater dip is out, for the moment as he has now wedged himself under a rock in the back of the tank. I would have to completely dissemble all the live rock to maybe get him. The food I put in front of him earlier is gone but the goby could have eaten it.

I'll keep an eye on him, but he has to move somewhere else for me to have a chance at netting him.

I'll update if I can grab and dip him.
Many, many thanks again!

 

[Redfoxtang]

Flashing is where a fish will kinda throw itself against the sand like scratching. It’s a sign usually of an irritation on the skin or in the gills. Hope everything works out good luck!!!

 

[NanoDJS]

what are you feeding him

 

[Richard Newman]

Morning update.
The gramma is still alive. It has moved to a different place in the back of the tank. I might be able to get it out for a freshwater dip, but there's still not much room to work with and I'm not sure the net will fit.

@Redfoxtang, you asked about flashing. Thanks for the definition! The answer would be yes. I would occasionally see it dive at the sand and do a loop. I thought it just might be hunting pods or was just a weird quirk. Best as I can remember though it had done that since I put it into the tank.

@NanoDJS, I broadcast feed a variety of foods: Hikari Marine S pellets, Hikari frozen mysis, Copepod Max, and LRS Reef Frenzy Nano. I'm not a very good chef so they would get some of the frozen food for a few days as a cube of mysis and LRS lasted 2 or 3 days.

 

[Richard Newman]

I was able to finally capture him. It might be too late, not sure. I gave him a 5 minute dip in RO/DI. He is still breathing, but not swimming well at all. Kinda floats a little then move a little. I did get a new picture while in the freshwater. Hopefully it'll confirm/deny Flukes.

Again, many thanks!

I'll update with new information. I'll be able to go to my LFS in about an hour. Hopefully they have some prazi-pro as I believe this is the 2nd fish to have this issue.

 

[Redfoxtang]

After the dip did you see any sesame seed looking objects on the bottom or floating around?

 

[Richard Newman]

Hi @Redfoxtang,
Unfortunately it's a bit hard to tell as I ended up getting some of the sand when I captured him. There might be a couple of things that don't look like sand in the bowl.

 

[Richard Newman]

LFS thinks it is bacterial. I got Dr G's medicated caviar. Unfortunately by the time I got home the gramma passed.
RIP royal gramma.
Sad day.

Many, many thanks for all who helped! R2R is really an awesome place.

 

[Redfoxtang]

Usually shows it’s signs as red blotches on skin but I could be wrong. Really sorry about that! Hopefully no more fish get sick. Recommendation though if not QTing, when choosing fish make the LFS feed and make sure it’s eating. Inspect the specimen closely for external parasites. This is not a guarantee the fish is 100% healthy and not carrying something but it’s a good start. Good luck!!

 

[Richard Newman]

Thanks @Redfoxtang!
Noted. My primary LFS medicates all their fish tanks. So while not a %100 guarantee does give a little assurance. Kinda back to the drawing board with the fish. For the moment I want to make sure the remaining 3 stay healthy.

Again thanks!

 

[NanoDJS]

very nice selection of foods btw my heart goes out to ya , I keep a very large adult I have been lucky to have for many years . One of my favorite fish , were routing for you over here.