Green cyano, something else, or even worse, a combo??

ReefingIsMyTherapy

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I've been battling this green "algae" for a few weeks and I have no idea whether I'm dealing with green cyano, something else or even worse, a combo.

As if that wasn't enough, I've been also battling dinos (Small Cell Amphidiniums) but today I spent several hours looking under the microscope and couldn't find any, so I'm cautiously optimistic and hoping that whatever is still in my tank (cyano, diatoms, et al) helped to outnumber and hopefully eradicate the dinos. Few weeks ago, I had a lot of brownish stringy algae, and confirmed under the microscope that I was in fact dealing with diatoms and dinos. As of today, I only see the stringy brownish algae on the back glass, and I under the microscope I can only see diatoms.

This is how, what I think is cyano, looks to the naked eye in my tank

PXL_20220428_205915548.jpg


Tons of bubbles, slimy but pretty easy to remove from the rock. The bubbles are released at times and stay floating next to the glass all around my tank. Certainly, not pleasing to the eye.

Under the microscope, it gets more interesting.
Sometimes I see green curly strands made of small little "blocks".

zig-zag-2.png


But sometimes, I see A LOT of small individual green blocks like this, in no specific order or shape at all (NOTE: I took this picture a couple of weeks ago, when I could still find SCAs at times, there's one right in the middle)

1.png


In this video, you will see a stream of these little green globblins. It's entirely possible that the stream was caused by the microscope lens being too close to the slide, but it's also possible these little guys were moving by themselves.


My Nitrates and Phosphates ratio is getting worse and worse by the week. These are the numbers I've recorded in the last couple of weeks (I use Hanna checkers to test)

DateNitratePhosphate
4/4120.08
4/12110.05
4/199.50.03
4/249.60.03
4/304.50.01

The trend is clear, it's going down. I ordered a bottle of NeoPhos (which I just got today) to try to fix the NO3 - PO4 balance, but I was definitely not expecting my nitrates to go down today as well.

Some numbers and data that you might want to know:

Tank size: 100g + 35g sump
Livestock: 2 clownfish, some LPS and softies. I have a small Blue Hippo tang in QT that I will transfer to my DT in the upcoming days.
Tank age: ~5 months
Cycled: I used Dr Tims One and Only to cycle. CaribSea life rock and sand
Lights: 3 XR15, running LPS/Soft preset at 40%. I turned all whites and reds down to 0.
Flow: 2 MP40s running lagoon preset at 6%, Vectra M2 at 15%
Filtration: Nyos 160 running 24x7. Poly-filter/filter cups. MarinePure cubes in sump
Feeding schedule: ~1/3 Easy Masstick cube daily. Frozen mysis shrimp every other day.

Some of the questions I have so far

1) Should I go ahead and dose NeoPhos?
2) Should I also dose NeoNitro?
3) Should I try turning my skimmer off for a few hours? Maybe at nights?
4) What about water changes? The last one was 2 weeks ago (10%) and it seems things got worse since then.

Hopefully the bright minds in this forum can help me figure out what I'm dealing with, and even better, a plan to fix it.
Thank you in advance for the help!
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

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Did your tank already go through the various algae phases earlier in the last 5 months? If not, this may just be the normal "uglies" that need to run their course.
As for raising N/P, have you tried feeding more?
Apologies if I'm off base.
Good luck :)
 
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ReefingIsMyTherapy

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Did your tank already go through the various algae phases earlier in the last 5 months? If not, this may just be the normal "uglies" that need to run their course.
As for raising N/P, have you tried feeding more?
Apologies if I'm off base.
Good luck :)
I'm sure this is the ugly stage, since it hasn't gone through all the phases as far as I know (this is my first saltwater tank, so still learning). I have not tried feeding more, but that's something that I will definitely try out. I want to exhaust first all the "natural" options, and use things like chemiclean as the last resort.
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

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I'm sure this is the ugly stage, since it hasn't gone through all the phases as far as I know (this is my first saltwater tank, so still learning). I have not tried feeding more, but that's something that I will definitely try out. I want to exhaust first all the "natural" options, and use things like chemiclean as the last resort.
Yes, it's hard when the typical advice is that you can add fish and coral once the tank is cycled. Really, there's a longer "cycle" for most tanks that start with mostly or all dry rock; different "blooms" of algae, etc that need to just run their course. Ideally, you can manage these stages without worrying about N/P imbalances, cutting back on lighting, etc, but once you have coral, it makes things more difficult.
I am a huge proponent of the slow, natural approach whenever possible.
What cuc do you have? You may want to beef it up to help control the algae.
Also, do you have a refugium?
 
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ReefingIsMyTherapy

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Yes, it's hard when the typical advice is that you can add fish and coral once the tank is cycled. Really, there's a longer "cycle" for most tanks that start with mostly or all dry rock; different "blooms" of algae, etc that need to just run their course. Ideally, you can manage these stages without worrying about N/P imbalances, cutting back on lighting, etc, but once you have coral, it makes things more difficult.
I am a huge proponent of the slow, natural approach whenever possible.
What cuc do you have? You may want to beef it up to help control the algae.
Also, do you have a refugium?
I have to admit that I made the mistake of adding coral before my tank had gone through the "ugglies". I should have researched more, but I didn't, and I'm really worried that the low (or zero) N03 P04 will have a detrimental impact on my corals, so I think I really need to come up with a plan to bump those nutrients up.

This is what I have for CUC:

1 Florida Fighting Conch
2 Tiger Conch
1 Ox Tongue Nerite
4 Florida Cerith
5 Nerite Snail

The conchs are amazing. The keep my sandbend pretty clean. However, the nerite and certih snails spend most of their time hanging outside the water :rolleyes: I was hoping those will help to keep my glass clean, but they do little to no work at all.

I got 4 Trochus Snails when I ordered my CUC, but unfortunately all of them were DOA.

I don't want to add crabs because I've read so many horror stories. Are there any snails or similar creature that you'd recommend that could help control the algae in the rock?

I don't have a refugium. My understanding is that it'd become useful if I need to export nutrients, which I don't seem to have. Or maybe there ARE nutrients, but this algae/bacteria is consuming it all, leaving almost nothing for my corals. I have a dedicated area in my sump that I'm keeping for when I'm ready to setup a refugium, but based on my limited knowledge, I don't think is time to add one yet. I might be totally wrong, though.
 

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I have to admit that I made the mistake of adding coral before my tank had gone through the "ugglies". I should have researched more, but I didn't, and I'm really worried that the low (or zero) N03 P04 will have a detrimental impact on my corals, so I think I really need to come up with a plan to bump those nutrients up.

This is what I have for CUC:

1 Florida Fighting Conch
2 Tiger Conch
1 Ox Tongue Nerite
4 Florida Cerith
5 Nerite Snail

The conchs are amazing. The keep my sandbend pretty clean. However, the nerite and certih snails spend most of their time hanging outside the water :rolleyes: I was hoping those will help to keep my glass clean, but they do little to no work at all.

I got 4 Trochus Snails when I ordered my CUC, but unfortunately all of them were DOA.

I don't want to add crabs because I've read so many horror stories. Are there any snails or similar creature that you'd recommend that could help control the algae in the rock?

I don't have a refugium. My understanding is that it'd become useful if I need to export nutrients, which I don't seem to have. Or maybe there ARE nutrients, but this algae/bacteria is consuming it all, leaving almost nothing for my corals. I have a dedicated area in my sump that I'm keeping for when I'm ready to setup a refugium, but based on my limited knowledge, I don't think is time to add one yet. I might be totally wrong, though.
I think you're right about waiting to add a refugium; but, your nutrients might be low because they are bound up in the algae in your tank...
As for cuc, the conchs are great, but the rest is kind of puny, lol. If you can, add more ceriths - the kind you have or the mini ones (they should bury themselves in the sand at night, not stay on the glass all the time), a few Mexican turbos, and the trochus if you can find them. Where are you located? Are there any fish stores near you?
 
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ReefingIsMyTherapy

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I think you're right about waiting to add a refugium; but, your nutrients might be low because they are bound up in the algae in your tank...
As for cuc, the conchs are great, but the rest is kind of puny, lol. If you can, add more ceriths - the kind you have or the mini ones (they should bury themselves in the sand at night, not stay on the glass all the time), a few Mexican turbos, and the trochus if you can find them. Where are you located? Are there any fish stores near you?
I'm in the US. I ordered my CUC from reefcleaners.org. There are a couple of LFS nearby. I heard the Mexican turbos thrive in "colder" waters. I keep my tank at 78 F°. l'll get a few and some trochus again. Thanks for the recommendations :)
 

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I'm in the US. I ordered my CUC from reefcleaners.org. There are a couple of LFS nearby. I heard the Mexican turbos thrive in "colder" waters. I keep my tank at 78 F°. l'll get a few and some trochus again. Thanks for the recommendations :)
I know you're in the US, I was wondering what state/city. Mexican turbos are tropical; margarita snails are colder-water snails. Mexican turbos will do fine in a typical reef tank.
 
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ReefingIsMyTherapy

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I know you're in the US, I was wondering what state/city. Mexican turbos are tropical; margarita snails are colder-water snails. Mexican turbos will do fine in a typical reef tank.
I live in the Washington state :) The beautiful Pacific Northwest. Thanks for clarifying about the Mexican turbos! I definitely will add some to my CUC right away
 

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How did it went? I have the same thing, similar situation, new tank with corals - so it would help me a lot to understand how/if you got rid of it. Especially if you found a way without chemicals.
 
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ReefingIsMyTherapy

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How did it went? I have the same thing, similar situation, new tank with corals - so it would help me a lot to understand how/if you got rid of it. Especially if you found a way without chemicals.
Hey @Bolek thanks for following up. I actually did let nature take its course. However, I fed Reef Chilli the day I noticed that PO4 was close to zero. I can't tell you for sure that solved the problem, but it did help to bring phosphates up. Other than that, I did nothing, and the bubbly green algae went away by itself after a few weeks :)

That said, I just started seeing a bit of a green layer building up again on some parts of my scape and a little bit on the sandbed as well. I recently added a refugium with a piece of clean chaeto from Algae Barn. I have no idea if the red light (AI fuge) that I'm using to grow the chaeto is causing the problem or my nutrients are feeding the algae on my DT. I ran some tests today and NO3 came back at 16.1 and PO4 0.05. Nitrates have been pretty consistent at that levels but phosphates did go down from 0.10 to 0.05 in 10 days without a water change.

I'll try to get a sample of the green stuff that's building up on the rock and will check it out under the microscope. I hope that I'm not dealing with the same thing again.
 

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Thanks for your update, it is very hopefull to me, that this can be solved without chemical and with patience.

Reading what worked for you, I am just curious what levels of No3/Po4 did you maintained?

From your microscope picture (i am still waiting on the microscope i ordered, so i will see if i have the same guys as you, but visually it looks exactly the same) it looks quite clear as a Cyanobacteria - and with them I understood the driving force of their growth is not too-low-phosphates (which is the case for Dinos). Here goes my question, as when you successfully got rid of that stuff, what levels of Nitrates and Phospathes your were targetting/having? I have currently 3 Nitrates, 0.03, Phosphates, so just wonder if I am on a good course to eliminate those guys as you did.

Thanks for sharing,
 
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ReefingIsMyTherapy

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Thanks for your update, it is very hopefull to me, that this can be solved without chemical and with patience.

Reading what worked for you, I am just curious what levels of No3/Po4 did you maintained?

From your microscope picture (i am still waiting on the microscope i ordered, so i will see if i have the same guys as you, but visually it looks exactly the same) it looks quite clear as a Cyanobacteria - and with them I understood the driving force of their growth is not too-low-phosphates (which is the case for Dinos). Here goes my question, as when you successfully got rid of that stuff, what levels of Nitrates and Phospathes your were targetting/having? I have currently 3 Nitrates, 0.03, Phosphates, so just wonder if I am on a good course to eliminate those guys as you did.

Thanks for sharing,
Nitrates have stayed relatively stable between 8 and 16. Phosphates have varied a bit more, but with the exception of those few days when I saw them drop to 0.01 (and that's when I fed reef chilli), the tests have came back between 0.06 and 0.11. I don't have a way to confirm my theory, but I'd like to think that keeping both NO3 and PO4 on the hight side helped with the problem.

It would be great if you could share pics once you get your microscope.
 

Bolek

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So it was Cyano.

It dissapeared after about 10 days. I have not done any "big action", just a few rather small changes, no idea how they contributed:
- increased lighting (from low 100-150 PAR across the rocks to 200-250 PAR)
- decreased temperature 1C (from 27C to 26C)
- turkeyblasting the big chunks of it
- addict bacteria, Microbacter7
- keeping nutrients the same (No3 2-5, Po4 0.01-0.07)

I think it was just because of new tank, and it needed the time.
No algea/cyano issue since then, even I still from time to time see a few pieces of cyano here and there, but it is not expanding.

1662661453210.png
 
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