Have a new theory on why my LPS corals are slowly dying...

[MadTownFess]

Brightwell Aquatic’s NeoPhos has been a life saver for me. A bottle will last you a VERY long time. I usually dose it in my ATO when my phosphates get lower than where my tank seems happiest. It’s saved me from a couple nutrient crashes just like the OP describes. I have some corals currently with some damage from a few months ago when I let my nutrients slide and my phosphate got close to undetectable.

If you don’t want to use NeoPhos you can buy food grade or reagent grade Tri sodium Phosphate and make a solution, all it requires is a little chemistry and some math.

I generally add enough to increase my phosphate by 0.02ppm and then wait 24 hours and test again, if it’s gone I dose more. After you get a feel for how much your tank is going to suck up you can add it to your ATO to simplify things. Eventually you won’t have to add it and the tank will stabilize, you just have to make sure you don’t let it go back to 0 over time.

I didn't realize there was a difference between 0/0 and 4/0. I will take your advice and purchase some this afternoon. Thanks for the info!

 

[MadTownFess]

Brightwell Aquatic’s NeoPhos has been a life saver for me. A bottle will last you a VERY long time. I usually dose it in my ATO when my phosphates get lower than where my tank seems happiest. It’s saved me from a couple nutrient crashes just like the OP describes. I have some corals currently with some damage from a few months ago when I let my nutrients slide and my phosphate got close to undetectable.

If you don’t want to use NeoPhos you can buy food grade or reagent grade Tri sodium Phosphate and make a solution, all it requires is a little chemistry and some math.

I generally add enough to increase my phosphate by 0.02ppm and then wait 24 hours and test again, if it’s gone I dose more. After you get a feel for how much your tank is going to suck up you can add it to your ATO to simplify things. Eventually you won’t have to add it and the tank will stabilize, you just have to make sure you don’t let it go back to 0 over time.

Do I need to use it in conjunction with MICROBACTER7 and REEF BIOFUEL or KATALYST or will it work alone?

 

[TexasReefer82]

MadTownFess, what type of lighting are you using? You never specifically stated that in your original post. You said that PAR is in the proper range but that doesn't really mean much if the spectrum isn't also correct.

 

[TexasReefer82]

Do I need to use it in conjunction with MICROBACTER7 and REEF BIOFUEL or KATALYST or will it work alone?

No, you should not add any of those other products. Just add a source of phosphate and the corals will absorb it from the water directly.

 

[Rick.45cal]

So if you are dosing Reef biofuel you need to stop, at least until your phosphates aren’t disappearing and are rising on their own. If you’ve been using biofuel during this period you’ve actually created another problem and that’s a surpluss of DOC. It’s ok it can be fixed, but you will probably have to dose phosphates for awhile to get them to appear. It may take several weeks of daily doses. Essentially you will have to burn off all that excess DOC by letting your bacteria consume them, they will also consume nitrate and phosphate in the process so you will have to keep testing and be on your toes to not let either go to zero. (I’ve been through this exact scenario). You can continue to use Microbacter 7 as directed. Just keep testing and adding phosphate (and nitrate if it starts to get close to zero). Once the DOC’s are used up by the bacteria the system will stabilize. Once your nitrates and phosphates start increasing (on their own). You can start adding back a small amount of biofuel, essentially you only want to add enough that your nutrients stop going up, but don’t go down either. It takes some patience and figuring to get it just right. Once you have phosphates in the system you will start to see changes in the corals (for the better) but it will take a long time to make up the damage caused by the crash. . You will get there, if you have any questions or concerns along the way feel free to PM me.

 

[Retro Reefer]

I would suggest a lot of your issues are from your tank being to young, typically I would introduce my first easy corals at about the 4 month mark.. nothing good happens quickly in this hobby.

 

[MadTownFess]

MadTownFess, what type of lighting are you using? You never specifically stated that in your original post. You said that PAR is in the proper range but that doesn't really mean much if the spectrum isn't also correct.

Hydra 26, running the AB+ Spectrum BRS reproduced. 12 hours a day, 4 hour ramp up/down

 

[Rick.45cal]

I personally am not a fan of biobeads I think it’s too hard to control their impact over the long haul. It’s easier (In my opinion) to use small daily carbon doses to maintain nutrients

 

[MadTownFess]

So if you are dosing Reef biofuel you need to stop, at least until your phosphates aren’t disappearing and are rising on their own. If you’ve been using biofuel during this period you’ve actually created another problem and that’s a surpluss of DOC. It’s ok it can be fixed, but you will probably have to dose phosphates for awhile to get them to appear. It may take several weeks of daily doses. Essentially you will have to burn off all that excess DOC by letting your bacteria consume them, they will also consume nitrate and phosphate in the process so you will have to keep testing and be on your toes to not let either go to zero. (I’ve been through this exact scenario). You can continue to use Microbacter 7 as directed. Just keep testing and adding phosphate (and nitrate if it starts to get close to zero). Once the DOC’s are used up by the bacteria the system will stabilize. Once your nitrates and phosphates start increasing (on their own). You can start adding back a small amount of biofuel, essentially you only want to add enough that your nutrients stop going up, but don’t go down either. It takes some patience and figuring to get it just right. Once you have phosphates in the system you will start to see changes in the corals (for the better) but it will take a long time to make up the damage caused by the crash. . You will get there, if you have any questions or concerns along the way feel free to PM me.

No I am not using any of the products I listed. The only non-two part I dose is AcroPower. When I went to checkout the NeoPhos, the description on BRS said, "Used in conjunction with..." all the products I listed, so I just wanted to make sure I didn't need to use this product with those listed in the description on BRS website. Sounds like thats not the case, I will just dose this when it comes in two days, and hopefully owe you a virtual beer

 

[Rick.45cal]

No I am not using any of the products I listed. The only non-two part I dose is AcroPower. When I went to checkout the NeoPhos, the description on BRS said, "Used in conjunction with..." all the products I listed, so I just wanted to make sure I didn't need to use this product with those listed in the description on BRS website. Sounds like thats not the case, I will just dose this when it comes in two days, and hopefully owe you a virtual beer

That’s great news you haven’t been using those it will make it much easier to correct the 0 phosphate.

 

[TexasReefer82]

To give you an idea of what additives are needed for a successful reef tank... I have an SPS dominant reef with several LPS and Zoas as well. Everything is healthy, growing, and colorful. I dose via dosing pump: B-Ionic 2-part, BRS Magnesium solution, and Spectracide Stump Remover Nitrate solution. Also, by hand, I dose a phosphate additive, and a daily drop of Lugol's Iodine solution. That's it. Nothing else whatsoever. The Lugol's is of questionable utility and may not be necessary. i might as well but the Phosphate on the doser pump as well.

I have tried out amino acid solutions like AcroPower and Red Sea A&B and noticed nothing from them. I've also tried Chroma from UWC and noticed nothing upon starting or stopping it.

I have a 40B heavily stocked with fish that get fed daily and I also feed PhytoFeast weekly or so because I really like my giant feather dusters. The large bioload no doubt helps with the corals.

 

[David D.]

Phosphates are not bad! Adding a source of Phosphates is not bad! (Shouting from the rooftops)

Pic so you know i’m not entirely craaaaaaaazy NO3- 15 ppm PO4- 0.24 ppm

Hello Rick,
My name's David.
Beautiful tank you have there !!!
I see you're from Lakeland, and that's where I live too.
I'd be honored to get some advice and/or help from someone with as much knowledge and artistry as you possess.
Would you be interested in earning some money on the side for coming by my home, checking out my tank, but most importantly for me, could you come by and acclimate some new fish for me that I would like to purchase from Divers Den ?
I'd be willing to pay you by the hour.
Please let me know how you feel about my proposal.
And do you build guitars too ?

 

[Brad Miller]

Completely puzzled, and wanted to run my latest theory by you guys to see what your thoughts are. My tank is 4 months old, and basically every LPS coral I have put in the tank slowly dies, bleaches, or refuses to grow. I dose two part, and my levels have been consistent for 2 months (8.3/400/1400). I test my water every other day. Temperature never swings more than 1 degree (I run at 79). I thought it may be the lights, but rented a PAR meter from BRS and the levels are in a good range. The flow is good. I have been using an RODI system from day 1, which I also measure before every use at 0 TDS. I do weekly 4 gallon water changes (45 gallon system), have not missed a single one since setting up the tank. Nitrate is 4 ppm. My phosphate measures 0, but I have not been running GFO for the last 2 months. I run ROX carbon only. With all that in mind....I feel like I have been doing everything right. My latest theory is that heavy metals are getting in the water. I live in Wisconsin, and my wife has been running two humidifiers 24/7 all winter. We use regular tap water for this....and have noticed all winter a tremendous amount of "dust" in our house. We will deep clean the house on Saturday, and by Tuesday the entire house is covered in dust. If the sun is hitting the house right, we have even noticed a haze in the air. Up until last week, we couldn't figure out what was causing it. Then for an experiment, we started putting the RODI water in our humidifiers, and BOOM, no more dust! The air in my house even smells cleaner. Is it possible that metals in our tap water were part of the dust in our house from the humidifier, and due to the tank being open top, has been slowly being added to to tank through "dust"....therefore causing my corals to slowly die? If my theory is correct, is the best course of action to just do a ton of water changes over the next few weeks?

You’re not crazy....
Are you using an ultrasonic humidifier by any chance ?
These will produce lots of calcium white dust in the air if not using rodi water in them.

 

[ReeferBill]

My guess is that you have a water softener in your home. We had the same problem with humidifiers and softened water. It’s the salt that is in the air making it dusty.

 

[homer1475]

Quick and easy solution if you think heavy metals are getting into your tank. Poly filter in a high flow area.

They change color based on whatr metals they absorb. If it doesn't change colors, you don't have any heavy metals in your tank.

 

[McPuff]

The tank is still fairly new which means your bacterial community is probably not fully mature. The system itself is certainly not fully mature. It will just take some patience. That could be one issue. Of course, nutrient limitation seems to be another. Why bother running GFO right now? I would take that offline asap and monitor your nutrient levels often. Allow phosphates to come up a bit and if you need to add GFO later do it very slowly.

 

[Kal93]

What are your phos and nitrate? And do you feed your LPS? Where are you placing them?

I don't think that this is due to the age of your tank (I have lepto, favia, torch, goni, and acans in a 3 month-old-tank that have been thriving for 1 month). I do not dose, just do regular water changes and dose bottle bacteria weekly (currently using macrobacter and will begin experimenting with prodibio). I feed my LPS every few days and keep them in low lighting (100-150 PAR)/moderate flow. My nitrate will range from 7-18ppm and phosphate from 0.05-0.1ppm, so it's never 0ppm, but LPS likes higher nutrient water (compared with SPS).

 

[AltitudeAquarium]

Completely puzzled, and wanted to run my latest theory by you guys to see what your thoughts are. My tank is 4 months old, and basically every LPS coral I have put in the tank slowly dies, bleaches, or refuses to grow. I dose two part, and my levels have been consistent for 2 months (8.3/400/1400). I test my water every other day. Temperature never swings more than 1 degree (I run at 79). I thought it may be the lights, but rented a PAR meter from BRS and the levels are in a good range. The flow is good. I have been using an RODI system from day 1, which I also measure before every use at 0 TDS. I do weekly 4 gallon water changes (45 gallon system), have not missed a single one since setting up the tank. Nitrate is 4 ppm. My phosphate measures 0, but I have not been running GFO for the last 2 months. I run ROX carbon only. With all that in mind....I feel like I have been doing everything right. My latest theory is that heavy metals are getting in the water. I live in Wisconsin, and my wife has been running two humidifiers 24/7 all winter. We use regular tap water for this....and have noticed all winter a tremendous amount of "dust" in our house. We will deep clean the house on Saturday, and by Tuesday the entire house is covered in dust. If the sun is hitting the house right, we have even noticed a haze in the air. Up until last week, we couldn't figure out what was causing it. Then for an experiment, we started putting the RODI water in our humidifiers, and BOOM, no more dust! The air in my house even smells cleaner. Is it possible that metals in our tap water were part of the dust in our house from the humidifier, and due to the tank being open top, has been slowly being added to to tank through "dust"....therefore causing my corals to slowly die? If my theory is correct, is the best course of action to just do a ton of water changes over the next few weeks?

Hello,
I use to work as an indoor air quality consultant. Based on your description, the dust coming from your humidifier is likely calcium carbonate used in tap water (sometimes naturally occurring) as a buffer to protect pipes from corrosion. The dusty powder is a result of evaporation occurring from the operation of the humidifier. The RODI removes chemicals such as the calcium carbonate. Thus no more dust. You can try using a different filter in your humidifier.
Sorry that this does not solve the problems you are having with your aquarium. I hope others with more expertise can help you.

 

[MadTownFess]

You’re not crazy....
Are you using an ultrasonic humidifier by any chance ?
These will produce lots of calcium white dust in the air if not using rodi water in them.

Yes we are using an ultrasonic humidifier. We have now switched to using RODI water, and noticed a great improvement in air quality. Would that calcium white dust have an adverse effect on my tank? That dust was getting in my tank for months.....

 

[MadTownFess]

Quick and easy solution if you think heavy metals are getting into your tank. Poly filter in a high flow area.

They change color based on whatr metals they absorb. If it doesn't change colors, you don't have any heavy metals in your tank.

Thanks for this suggestion, I actually ordered some the other day, and they should be arriving today. Will be curious what the result is.