Hawaii Fish Ban Update

Yes I agree here. I don’t really know how it works, but I’d like to see stats showing that the wild population has recovered. I’d also then like to see a sustainable amount of fish harvested, and perhaps some of the cost of a fish put towards protection of the reefs and rebuilding!
You won’t see stats showing any recovery because there wasn’t a recovery. There was no recovery necessary as the population has remained stable from “back in the day” until now.

Aquarium collection made no measurable impact to fish populations.
 
This is not true. First off aquaculture has been around for a while, its not a new thing. There are companies that has been selling captive clowns for decades. Did the price of designer clowns come down? No. They cost more than ever.
Also captive breeders have nothing but a few species that they can breed and sell. A few species, high prices and low qty is not going to be able to hold this entire industry. In fact it will cause a supply demand issue and drive prices up. Breeders will hold monopoly over our hobby and charge whatever they will feel like.
This is why its must and best for all these bans and nemo acts to go away.
Does this mean there should be no check and balance of what and how much you can collect? No, I agreee there should be check and balance but not entire bans unless classified as endangered or close to extint species.
Well said and the correct take. I wish more people from all he trade side would do a better job explaining how this all works because I see so many false narratives being tossed around that will ultimately be our undoing as a hobby and industry
A kind word of advice:

If you really don't know how it works, take the time to educate yourself.

I realize that humans don't exactly have a great track record, but a bit of study would show that the Hawaiian ornamental fishery was exactly what you were talking about before the ban, and that the ban has done absolutely nothing except for make people poorer. Both the fishers who captured the fish and lost work, and the hobbyists who had to pay inflated prices because a sustainably run fishery was shut down due to fear-mongering and lies.

The stats that you seek were collected on an annual, recurring basis by the Hawaiian fishery. Catch quotas were set based on population dynamics. Protections were in place for both the health of the collected animals and for the reefs as a whole. The Hawaiian fishery was basically the model that the rest of the world should have followed.

And it was shut down based on fear and lies.
again, another wise take. Appreciate informed people!
 
Well said and the correct take. I wish more people from all he trade side would do a better job explaining how this all works because I see so many false narratives being tossed around that will ultimately be our undoing as a hobby and industry

again, another wise take. Appreciate informed people!

Like you sir, I am a hobbyist first business later.
 
You won’t see stats showing any recovery because there wasn’t a recovery. There was no recovery necessary as the population has remained stable from “back in the day” until now.

Aquarium collection made no measurable impact to fish populations.
You got it! The truth is the size fish we take doesn’t even show up in the results whether we fish or not. The reason for this is the life history and reproductive strategies of these fish. They’re highly reproductive and have spawning seasons for up to 10 months of the year. When you add all the factors up you will realize how inconsequential the fisheries impact is upon the resource. The scientists and the fishermen aren’t lying
 
Wonder how the avian, reptile, and freshwater industries manage...
Reptile industry is largely captive bred, as reptiles are not delicate, and breed quite easily. For instance, some people are just giving normal ball pythons away at reptile shows, and you can usually get most reptiles for a more than reasonable price, as most of them are CB. Even exotics like crocodile monitors are still available captive bred.

Avian industry is extremely dangerous to species, and has actually helped drive the Spix's macaw to extinction.

Freshwater I am less experienced in.
 
Reptile industry is largely captive bred, as reptiles are not delicate, and breed quite easily. For instance, some people are just giving normal ball pythons away at reptile shows, and you can usually get most reptiles for a more than reasonable price, as most of them are CB. Even exotics like crocodile monitors are still available captive bred.

Avian industry is extremely dangerous to species, and has actually helped drive the Spix's macaw to extinction.

Freshwater I am less experienced in.
For freshwater a lot are not that hard to breed in captivity and a lot are bred. But there are still some that are caught using less than shall we say humane ways. Cyanide and soaping the water are a couple way certain fish are caught both of which will cause harm to fish and environment.
 
This is again a perspective of an uninformed person. I’m in aquaculture as well…this isn’t a reality for aquarium fisheries or any fishery in this lifetime. Sorry to rain on your parade

This is not true. First off aquaculture has been around for a while, its not a new thing. There are companies that has been selling captive clowns for decades. Did the price of designer clowns come down? No. They cost more than ever.
Also captive breeders have nothing but a few species that they can breed and sell. A few species, high prices and low qty is not going to be able to hold this entire industry. In fact it will cause a supply demand issue and drive prices up. Breeders will hold monopoly over our hobby and charge whatever they will feel like.
This is why its must and best for all these bans and nemo acts to go away.
Does this mean there should be no check and balance of what and how much you can collect? No, I agreee there should be check and balance but not entire bans unless classified as endangered or close to extinct species.
Maybe a little education from you both could be helpful then, instead of just stating the opposite from a position of authority. For example, why do you both seem to think providing incentives (through high sell value fish) to aquaculture them isn't helpful longterm?
You point at "designer clowns" as a negative example, but the answer is far more likely to be the fact that they're designer - They are bred to be rare and therefore expensive. They are expensive because they have to be. That's the whole point of them.
I think you both more a lot better than I that fish pricing in this hobby is complex and often a heck of a lot more than just can they be got cheap.

The point I think I'm moving around to here is - I am for incentivisation of aquaculture RnD and commoditization in the short-term in order to gain long-term benefits. I think the scientific value of learning how previously impossible to breed species is extremely high, and sometimes misguided restrictions like this can be the the reason whole company's choose to burn RnD cash on figuring it out.
 
Any insight into why Hawaii Kole tangs are banned from collection? As someone who regularly visits Hawaiian islands and snorkel, they seem to be quite common.

Of course my experience is anecdotal and perhaps they are common locally at certain sites but overall have low numbers. I also think Kole tang has cultural importance to native Hawaiians, so maybe it is related to that.
 
I do know that. So for just the West coast of the Big Island of Hawaii where most of the yellow tang is harvested, the fishery would land on average, over a 20 year period, 275k fish. There were years where it went as high as 350k and as low as 200k. During this 20 year period the overall yellow tang population increased. For the five years the fishery has been closed, the scientist tasked with monitoring have came to the conclusion that the population dynamics haven’t changed in a way their survey methods can see meaning that whether the fishery is open or closed it has little to no effect on the overall population. This is because the fishery harvest juvenile size class that has massive flux in abundance and most get absorbed and replaced by cohorts and subsequent waves of recruitment. The fishers are there and take from this pool of fish in flux and we never mess with the subadults or adults in any significant numbers. Hope that answers your question 😂

Are you saying 275k YT are captured and sold per year?! That is almost 800 fish a day. That is a staggering amount of fish for the aquarium trade.
 
Are you saying 275k YT are captured and sold per year?! That is almost 800 fish a day. That is a staggering amount of fish for the aquarium trade.
Are you familiar with the term biomass?

The yellow tang in West Hawaii is managed by the size that’s harvested. We have what’s called a slot limit from 2-4”. The size that’s collected is right at the 2- 2.75” size class which weighs 3 grams per fish. 3 grams of biomass per fish. At 800 fish per day that isn’t even 6 POUNDS of biomass removed for the entire fishery per day spread over 144 miles of coastline. Less than 2000 lbs per year. Just to put that in perspective, ANY fishermen of ANY kind that doesn’t catch more than 10 pounds per outing is a terrible fisherman. Most of the fisheries here in west Hawaii remove TONS of biomass per year and that’s just off what’s reported.

It’s inconsequential
 
I didnt think that 800 per day number was anywhere near the true sales as we probably did almost half of that prior to the ban. and we are sure we were not 50% of all the yellow tang sales in USA.
 
Are you familiar with the term biomass?

The yellow tang in West Hawaii is managed by the size that’s harvested. We have what’s called a slot limit from 2-4”. The size that’s collected is right at the 2- 2.75” size class which weighs 3 grams per fish. 3 grams of biomass per fish. At 800 fish per day that isn’t even 6 POUNDS of biomass removed for the entire fishery per day spread over 144 miles of coastline. Less than 2000 lbs per year. Just to put that in perspective, ANY fishermen of ANY kind that doesn’t catch more than 10 pounds per outing is a terrible fisherman. Most of the fisheries here in west Hawaii remove TONS of biomass per year and that’s just off what’s reported.

It’s inconsequential

Oh trust me I know it is nothing in the grand scheme. The population can more than support it. I'm just shocked that they collect that many YT for the aquarium market! I've been doing this over 20 years. I have ALWAYS had a YT. I have only ever had 1 die. It was a tank bred lol. So in 20+ years I have had 3 or 4 YT total. So saying 275k in a year for the aquarium hobby is wild to me.
 
Oh trust me I know it is nothing in the grand scheme. The population can more than support it. I'm just shocked that they collect that many YT for the aquarium market! I've been doing this over 20 years. I have ALWAYS had a YT. I have only ever had 1 die. It was a tank bred lol. So in 20+ years I have had 3 or 4 YT total. So saying 275k in a year for the aquarium hobby is wild to me.
Statewide the numbers are even higher. Probably in the neighborhood of 350k per year for yellow tang spread across the entire island chain. But keep in mind this number services the entire planet. There’s a lot of aquarium keepers out there. Asia in particular absorbs a lot of fish as China has grown into a economic powerhouse
 
I didnt think that 800 per day number was anywhere near the true sales as we probably did almost half of that prior to the ban. and we are sure we were not 50% of all the yellow tang sales in USA.
That’s the reported landings. The real number is anyone’s guess but in West Hawaii, the fishers seem to follow the rules and report their catch. Much stiffer penalties than anywhere else so guys don’t play around for the most part. There’s always a few bad apples in anything tho
 
Statewide the numbers are even higher. Probably in the neighborhood of 350k per year for yellow tang spread across the entire island chain. But keep in mind this number services the entire planet. There’s a lot of aquarium keepers out there. Asia in particular absorbs a lot of fish as China has grown into a economic powerhouse

Ya that is crazy to think about.

If the Kole tang is off the collection list I might need to make a trip out to the Islands and collect one for myself. It is my favorite fish and I had to give mine up before a move just before the ban. I wasn't able to get setup in time again to get another one.
 
Ya that is crazy to think about.

If the Kole tang is off the collection list I might need to make a trip out to the Islands and collect one for myself. It is my favorite fish and I had to give mine up before a move just before the ban. I wasn't able to get setup in time again to get another one.
Nothing is set in stone. Kole will be available in the future in some form or fashion 😉
 
Here’s a pic of a yellow I caught years ago. He was racquetball size. We called him little Haole. Very pugnacious with other yellows. A real scrapper
 

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HOW MUCH DOES A FISH’S FEEDING REQUIREMENTS AFFECT YOUR STOCKING DECISIONS?

  • A lot! - I avoid fish that require frequent or specialized feeding

    Votes: 12 29.3%
  • Quite a bit, but an automatic feeder can change my answer

    Votes: 6 14.6%
  • It depends on whether my nutrient export can handle it

    Votes: 6 14.6%
  • It depends on how badly I want the fish

    Votes: 10 24.4%
  • Not much. I’m willing to adjust my routine

    Votes: 9 22.0%
  • Not at all. Feeding demands don’t limit my stocking choices

    Votes: 7 17.1%
  • I usually learn about the demanding feeding schedule after buying the fish!

    Votes: 2 4.9%
  • I haven’t really considered this before

    Votes: 3 7.3%
  • Something else (see my comments in the thread)

    Votes: 1 2.4%
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