Hawaii Fish Ban Update

[Hawaiian AQ]

There’s a lot of things going on that I cannot share rn but I’ll say this: we will reopen this fishery. These arguments against us have one common denominator: outright lying.

When you have to mislead decision makers by manufacturing facts, making emotional arguments that collide with other positions you hold and coming off like a massive hypocrite, you’re not going to win.

As far as price is concerned I see many people discuss this. A few things to consider. We will set the price based on the final outcome and the hand we are dealt. In the end the value of the fish will be better than what is currently being offered. You’ll get a sturdy/robust , disease free, full color yellow tang that you’ll enjoy for a very long time that was collected from a certified low impact and sustainable fishery. The yellow tang fishery on Hawaii island is the most studied aquarium fishery in the world and something hobbyists should be wanting to support. With all the concerns about cyanide use, fish having long transit times, no standards or oversight etc, these are NOT issues in Hawaii at all. We are a short supply chain fishery, low transit times, certified net caught, low to no mortality,science based management since 1999, and now have gone through a rigorous environmental review process(only fishery in Hawaii to ever do so) proving everything.

We as a fishery set the bar of how aquarium fisheries worldwide SHOULD be managed and that is something the end consumer SHOULD support.

I see people talk about high prices and gouging etc for what the yellow tang will cost yet I look around at all the other offerings and everything is hundreds of dollars. I agree it’s too much and that’s destroying the hobby IMO but the ire shouldn’t be focused on us. We’ve lost everything in this as fishermen in Hawaii

 

[Tony Thompson]

I see people talk about high prices and gouging etc for what the yellow tang will cost yet I look around at all the other offerings and everything is hundreds of dollars. I agree it’s too much and that’s destroying the hobby IMO but the ire shouldn’t be focused on us. We’ve lost everything in this as fishermen in Hawaii

Hope you guys get the permits next year, good luck to you and the other AQ fisheries.

After watching the presentation (PowerPoint) presentation by DNLR I would agree that Hawaii has set a gold standard for AQ Fisheries and you should be commended for that, well done.

I would also like to commend all those whom gave testament from both sides. As an outsider I found it very interesting.

Good luck to you all.

 

[areefer01]

YTs were $30-39 before covid/ban.

Absolutely Fish in NJ, which sells high quality live stock but is not considered cheap was selling them for $35 a piece about 5 maybe 6 years ago. Had a tank full of medium-ish ones when I told my friend that when I finally set up my new tank I'll get 7. We know how that went!

I'd pay $79-$89 in todays money but not $200-$400 hundred considering the quantity.

It was just fuzzy math as I'm not going to check online vs lfs nor do I really remember. It was really sort of asking what do hobbyist feel is a reasonable price. I know it is subjective but the question is never the less interesting as some plop down over 500 USD for a 1/4" frag.

 

[BZOFIQ]

It was just fuzzy math as I'm not going to check online vs lfs nor do I really remember. It was really sort of asking what do hobbyist feel is a reasonable price. I know it is subjective but the question is never the less interesting as some plop down over 500 USD for a 1/4" frag.

I've seen $3000 for a frag 2 weeks ago at a swap in LI

Doesn't mean APEX should cost $12K and appear to be a steal by comparison.

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

I’ll make a promise to the hobbyists that we will keep the price as low as possible. I’m not only a fishermen but a lifelong hobbyists and aquarium activists. My entire life has been formed around aquatic life in captivity and in the wild. It’s something I take to heart and care deeply about. For me, this has never been about money, it’s about connecting people to the sea and furthering our appreciation and understanding of these animals and habitats that captivate us. I see the prices of coral and fish and everything really and it makes me sad and I often wonder how many youngsters will never get to have the experiences I was exposed to because it’s simply become way too expensive. That’s never what this was supposed to be about

 

[areefer01]

I've seen $3000 for a frag 2 weeks ago at a swap in LI

Doesn't mean APEX should cost $12K and appear to be a steal by comparison.

It isn't about equalling the cost but rather noting a price of what hobbyist pay.

It is probably safe to say that lower collection limits, and collection methods or rules, will dictate the price. As it should.

 

[areefer01]

I’ll make a promise to the hobbyists that we will keep the price as low as possible. I’m not only a fishermen but a lifelong hobbyists and aquarium activists. My entire life has been formed around aquatic life in captivity and in the wild. It’s something I take to heart and care deeply about. For me, this has never been about money, it’s about connecting people to the sea and furthering our appreciation and understanding of these animals and habitats that captivate us. I see the prices of coral and fish and everything really and it makes me sad and I often wonder how many youngsters will never get to have the experiences I was exposed to because it’s simply become way too expensive. That’s never what this was supposed to be about

Some will argue that the hobby today is driven by social media and the side hustle. It doesn't have to be expensive.

It is, after all, a hobby. Discretionary income.

Do not mean to state the obvious.

 

[albano]

I’ll make a promise to the hobbyists that we will keep the price as low as possible.

Just wondering…do you have any idea of how many yellow tangs were caught yearly, in the past when it was legal?

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

Just wondering…do you have any idea of how many yellow tangs were caught yearly, in the past when it was legal?

I do know that. So for just the West coast of the Big Island of Hawaii where most of the yellow tang is harvested, the fishery would land on average, over a 20 year period, 275k fish. There were years where it went as high as 350k and as low as 200k. During this 20 year period the overall yellow tang population increased. For the five years the fishery has been closed, the scientist tasked with monitoring have came to the conclusion that the population dynamics haven’t changed in a way their survey methods can see meaning that whether the fishery is open or closed it has little to no effect on the overall population. This is because the fishery harvest juvenile size class that has massive flux in abundance and most get absorbed and replaced by cohorts and subsequent waves of recruitment. The fishers are there and take from this pool of fish in flux and we never mess with the subadults or adults in any significant numbers. Hope that answers your question

 

[Daniel Doherty]

I may be in the minority here, but I hope the ban stays in place, unless it truly is sustainable for the fish populations. Maybe another decade of the ban would be best. I personally don't care if certain fish aren't available for my aquarium or if captive breds aren't as nice. I own 3 Biota YTs and they look just fine to me..if that means not plucking them from the ocean, I'm not selfish enough to demand a bright yellow to stare at for my own personal enjoyment at the expense of the YT wild populations.

Yes I agree here. I don’t really know how it works, but I’d like to see stats showing that the wild population has recovered. I’d also then like to see a sustainable amount of fish harvested, and perhaps some of the cost of a fish put towards protection of the reefs and rebuilding!

 

[Daniel Doherty]

I'm glad the ban happened. It caused groups like biota to seize the opportunity to develop captive breeding programs for various species. This really needs to continue.
Scanning over the PDF it would seem some level of control should be returned to the fisheries. But I hope that it is restrictive enough to keep prices high and continue to push investments into captive breeding options.

Exactly this, and once aquaculturing has become widespread prices will drop anyways. It’s just simply supply and demand. We could even boost wild populations!

 

[albano]

Yes sir, that’s the #s that I was looking for…
I’m thinking that if the limits are set at 100k, roughly 1/3 of past ‘harvests’… that alone should cause a significant (major) price increase!

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

Yes I agree here. I don’t really know how it works, but I’d like to see stats showing that the wild population has recovered. I’d also then like to see a sustainable amount of fish harvested, and perhaps some of the cost of a fish put towards protection of the reefs and rebuilding!

You really don’t know how it works, I agree with you there. The “stats” are voluminous, maybe just read DARs latest 92 page paper which was presented in April of last year at the BLNR, or you can read the mandated 5 year report to the Hawai’i legislature that was just presented last year; or the findings of the BLNR after 7 years environmental review process. It’s a low to no impact fishery, that’s their assessment as the agency tasked with resource management. This has been thoroughly examined and frankly beat to death. The record is crystal clear. The wild population was never down or needing to recover, that’s just a made up non-scientific, baseless claim. The population has increased and what the fishery will be allowed to take is way below an acceptable standard of sustainable harvest/yield by any known fishery science. In food fisheries, the standard for sustainable harvest is up to 40%. In this fishery we are around 1%

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

I mean the meeting we just had the Division of Aquatic Resources gave a hour long presentation covering any of the issues you’re concerned with. Maybe start there, last friday

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

Exactly this, and once aquaculturing has become widespread prices will drop anyways. It’s just simply supply and demand. We could even boost wild populations!

This is again a perspective of an uninformed person. I’m in aquaculture as well…this isn’t a reality for aquarium fisheries or any fishery in this lifetime. Sorry to rain on your parade

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

I’ll make a promise to the hobbyists that we will keep the price as low as possible. I’m not only a fishermen but a lifelong hobbyists and aquarium activists. My entire life has been formed around aquatic life in captivity and in the wild. It’s something I take to heart and care deeply about. For me, this has never been about money, it’s about connecting people to the sea and furthering our appreciation and understanding of these animals and habitats that captivate us. I see the prices of coral and fish and everything really and it makes me sad and I often wonder how many youngsters will never get to have the experiences I was exposed to because it’s simply become way too expensive. That’s never what this was supposed to be about

I second that, I promise to keep the prices as low as possible for our customers. I know @Hawaiian AQ at personal level, I believe him 100% when he says he will try to keep the cost low, he means it.
If he will pass a low cost to us, we promise to keep retail just as cheap.

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

Exactly this, and once aquaculturing has become widespread prices will drop anyways. It’s just simply supply and demand. We could even boost wild populations!

This is not true. First off aquaculture has been around for a while, its not a new thing. There are companies that has been selling captive clowns for decades. Did the price of designer clowns come down? No. They cost more than ever.
Also captive breeders have nothing but a few species that they can breed and sell. A few species, high prices and low qty is not going to be able to hold this entire industry. In fact it will cause a supply demand issue and drive prices up. Breeders will hold monopoly over our hobby and charge whatever they will feel like.
This is why its must and best for all these bans and nemo acts to go away.
Does this mean there should be no check and balance of what and how much you can collect? No, I agreee there should be check and balance but not entire bans unless classified as endangered or close to extinct species.

 

[JayM]

I’ll make a promise to the hobbyists that we will keep the price as low as possible. I’m not only a fishermen but a lifelong hobbyists and aquarium activists. My entire life has been formed around aquatic life in captivity and in the wild. It’s something I take to heart and care deeply about. For me, this has never been about money, it’s about connecting people to the sea and furthering our appreciation and understanding of these animals and habitats that captivate us. I see the prices of coral and fish and everything really and it makes me sad and I often wonder how many youngsters will never get to have the experiences I was exposed to because it’s simply become way too expensive. That’s never what this was supposed to be about

I’m sure you’ll do your best to keep wholesale pricing reasonable, but going out on the boat for a day costs the same for catching 10 fish as it does 1000 fish. And considering only 5 whitelisted species, and severely reduced quotas, you all still need to make a buck.

I second that, I promise to keep the prices as low as possible for our customers. I know @Hawaiian AQ at personal level, I believe him 100% when he says he will try to keep the cost low, he means it.
If he will pass a low cost to us, we promise to keep retail just as cheap.

We all definitely appreciate that, but I’m gonna guess that you’re in the minority.

I’m just not sure where pricing will go from where it is now. On one hand, it could go down because supply will be higher than it is now. But on the other hand it could go up because they are “true Hawaiian whatever” and not “not real” captive bred fish.

 

[Biokabe]

Yes I agree here. I don’t really know how it works, but I’d like to see stats showing that the wild population has recovered. I’d also then like to see a sustainable amount of fish harvested, and perhaps some of the cost of a fish put towards protection of the reefs and rebuilding!

A kind word of advice:

If you really don't know how it works, take the time to educate yourself.

I realize that humans don't exactly have a great track record, but a bit of study would show that the Hawaiian ornamental fishery was exactly what you were talking about before the ban, and that the ban has done absolutely nothing except for make people poorer. Both the fishers who captured the fish and lost work, and the hobbyists who had to pay inflated prices because a sustainably run fishery was shut down due to fear-mongering and lies.

The stats that you seek were collected on an annual, recurring basis by the Hawaiian fishery. Catch quotas were set based on population dynamics. Protections were in place for both the health of the collected animals and for the reefs as a whole. The Hawaiian fishery was basically the model that the rest of the world should have followed.

And it was shut down based on fear and lies.

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

I remember when the first few years of captive yellow tangs and purple tangs came out. Some had swimming defects, some had googly eyes, some were deformed and sizes were extremely small, let alone the natural color of the fish was not even there.
We buy and sell from pretty much every breeder out there. Fish are tiny in size and cost 5-50 times higher than normal price.
Gobies have been bred in captivity for a while. A normal yellow watchman goby from wild which is decent medium size cost 5 times less than its captive bred in tiny 1/2" size.
Regal Angels are 1/2 to 3/4", cost 10 times more than wild caught and surival rate in our expereince 0%
we took them off the site.
I can show you example after example like this.