Hawaii Fish Ban Update

[IceNein]

You’d have to be criminally naive to expect any other… Inflation has occurred everywhere else, and then there will be the rarity and novelty value. At the end of the day, things are worth what people will pay, and those that won’t pay won’t get (unfortunately won’t stop their entitled whining though!)

If the price comes down, it will do so gradually. The people collecting aren't going to just sell them below market out of charity. The market will have to come down on its own as the supply increases.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Market, pricing and speculation have no purpose at this time. I predicted this would be a long train coming and I would not be surprised if this continued into December or even beyond. We can only sit back and wait and keep signing petitions

 

[ryshark]

My understanding is that as of this week the chances of reopening is essentially dead. Anyone else see/hear this?

 

[me & my baby]

Fair enough. I don't know enough about this issue to have an opinion on that. I'm willing to assume you're right.

I do however strongly believe captive breeding needs to be the majority of imports, and not the exception. I agree that science should lead the way in fisheries management, but I dislike that it was cheap enough that no one really felt it worth the investment to take on the challenge of palegic species breeding until recently.

For that reason the ban did have a silver lining and I'm grateful for that.

the problem with captive breeding is not having the diversity of genetics . If you take the time to read through a lot of the paper work and you see how and you see how they are creating a monopoly on who can and can not aquaculture these fish you will see how all of ta=hat part is a scam. Biota is not the great place you perceive it to be .

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

I heard the entire 9 hrs of the proceedings.
Personally I dont think it will open. 87% of locals are against it

 

[areefer01]

Biota is not the great place you perceive it to be .

Nor is the current situation with wild collection. Easy to target ORA, Bali, Biota, or any other of the larger programs. Equally easy to target collectors.

Yet here we are - nothing is getting done anywhere. Pretty soon Rachel will be asking all of us if we like her owl.

 

[ryshark]

I heard the entire 9 hrs of the proceedings.
Personally I dont think it will open. 87% of locals are against it

I've been holding off for several years, may have to hit you up for a captive yellow tang soon.

 

[mpatterson42]

I've been holding off for several years, may have to hit you up for a captive yellow tang soon.

I got my captive bred yellow tang from Dr. Reef, I love him, this is Nanaboat.

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

Not to steal the thread. But we get ours captive bred and keep them for 3 months before shipping.
Also have a shipment of wild yellow tangs coming from Tahiti next week.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Not to steal the thread. But we get ours captive bred and keep them for 3 months before shipping.
Also have a shipment of wild yellow tangs coming from Tahiti next week.

What is your pricing on Tahitian yellows? PM if needed

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

They haven't landed yet and not sure how many we will get.
My guess is 5 or 6 of them and likely about $350. They are decent size about 3 to 3.5". But nothing is for sure till we have them in our facility.

 

[KrisReef]

I heard the entire 9 hrs of the proceedings.
Personally I dont think it will open. 87% of locals are against it

I’m sure a lot of noisy people and paid activists took part in the show but I don’t think the venue was a realistic place to take a poll and expect an unbiased random sample. These. Kinds of hearings attract activists and people who think they are on a mission of the highest importance, but they don’t necessarily have a clue about the resources they claim to represent.

Know doubt they feel deeply about something, making them the easiest people to be manipulated by smarter people who have their own agenda, usually it’s economical advantage for their personal interests.

(No yellow tangs were injured by this post.)


Edit-and thanks Dr R for importing Yellow Tangs for our hobby to enjoy! I appreciate your business, and I wish you well!

 

[Bob Weigant]

Just curious but are Potters Wrasses only from Hawaii ?

 

[DaJMasta]

Just curious but are Potters Wrasses only from Hawaii ?

They are endemic to Hawaii, like many marine (and terrestrial) species there.

The longer answer is that Hawaii is a high spot in the middle of a large, deep ocean, so their species have been geographically isolated for a long time, and this gives rises to new species that evolve for the local environment. A reef fish may be in the same ocean, or even the same temperature, but unless it can survive the trip between reefs with its food and shelter, they can only spread so far.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

the problem with captive breeding is not having the diversity of genetics . If you take the time to read through a lot of the paper work and you see how and you see how they are creating a monopoly on who can and can not aquaculture these fish you will see how all of ta=hat part is a scam. Biota is not the great place you perceive it to be .

Genetics doesn’t enter into it with Biota. They are only producing f1 fish from wild broodstock (possible exception for the Gramma dejongi) As time goes on, if they are unable to replenish their broodstock, they’ll raise f2 fish for that use. Then, they’ll need to take care to maximize genetic diversity.

That isn’t too difficult - I raised Haplochromis cichlids through 12 generations that had gone through a bottleneck of just two pairs of fish. Line breeding with side crosses every couple of generations works well.

The real genetic issues show up in designer clownfish, where the fish are being bred to enhance certain traits, but that also can preserve or enhance detrimental alleles.

 

[winxp_man]

The real genetic issues show up in designer clownfish, where the fish are being bred to enhance certain traits, but that also can preserve or enhance detrimental alleles.

I wonder what causes the pinched head in clown fish then. I always thought it was genetic issues. I get it can be the case for the designer fish. But I’m talking about standard orange clowns, or black Darwin. It’s been almost two years since I last saw a non pinched head clown. The bigger majority have a pinched head. The other one is their mouth design and gill plate missing sections at times.

Or is it an issue with how they are reared?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I wonder what causes the pinched head in clown fish then. I always thought it was genetic issues. I get it can be the case for the designer fish. But I’m talking about standard orange clowns, or black Darwin. It’s been almost two years since I last saw a non pinched head clown. The bigger majority have a pinched head. The other one is their mouth design and gill plate missing sections at times.

Or is it an issue with how they are reared?

Often hereditary and overbreeding

 

[pepbill]

Not to steal the thread. But we get ours captive bred and keep them for 3 months before shipping.
Also have a shipment of wild yellow tangs coming from Tahiti next week.

What is your pricing on Tahitian yellows? PM if needed

There are no yellow tangs in Tahiti. There are flights from Hawaii to Tahiti. Some probably funneling them through a country that is less diligent on wildlife enforcement.

 

[Freenow54]

Often hereditary and overbreeding

Sort of reared lol. Its called inbreeding

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I wonder what causes the pinched head in clown fish then. I always thought it was genetic issues. I get it can be the case for the designer fish. But I’m talking about standard orange clowns, or black Darwin. It’s been almost two years since I last saw a non pinched head clown. The bigger majority have a pinched head. The other one is their mouth design and gill plate missing sections at times.

Or is it an issue with how they are reared?

Tank raised clowns see two issues: genetic inbreeding depression and developmental deformities. Either or both can be present in a given fish. Even fish that appear to have a wild phenotype (Darwin clowns) may be severely inbred as the breeder may have started with just a single pair.

I don’t know what causes pinched heads in these fish. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s developmental, related to some larval dietary issue.