Help! First time dealing with ich/velvet/brooklynella!

[vetteguy53081]

Sorry you have a prejudice against bacteria in a bottle. I gave my opinion. It stands - The bottle contains bacteria - that can help with nitrification. Just like Biospira. BTW - I know greek and Latin - and English - so I know what stress means LOL. And I know what Zyme means - and it does not mean 'culture'.

You love to argue- I give you that
Good night

 

[Spare time]

If its brook, I'd treat the fish in a separate system with paraguard (far safer than formalin). Last resort ruby reef rally pro in tank.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm pretty sure its the same thing as waste away, fritz 460, microbacter clean, etc. So it isn't something the OP should just throw away but yes it won't be an ammonia removal solution

Agree

 

[MnFish1]

I'm pretty sure its the same thing as waste away, fritz 460, microbacter clean, etc. So it isn't something the OP should just throw away but yes it won't be an ammonia removal solution

If you read the product description - it contains nitrification bacteria - likely heterotrophic bacteria. May not be as good as Biospira - but - it will help with ammonia short-term.

 

[MnFish1]

You love to argue- I give you that
Good night

Actually - I didn't get a microbiology degree - and multiple years of research to be commented to the way you are. Yes - If I disagree with something - I'm not afraid to say it. I also don't jump the gun all the time with diagnoses - that may or may not have anything to do with the fish in question. Every clown does not have Brook. Every time a fish has thick mucus - it's not Brook. As we both said - in this case - without better pictures/more history it's impossible to say.

 

[1Meshy]

I was able to blow up pics which are somewhat fuzzy but signs point to brooklynella with secondary infections.
The thick mucus on its body is a second sign which is noticeable on the fish. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus. You may notice loss of appetite, fish may scraping up against objects, rapid respiration developing, and fish often gasping for air at the surface then becomming lethargic.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.

BEFORE BEGINNING TREATMENT, PLEASE POST CLEARER PICS UNDER WHITE LIGHTING TO CONFIRM.

This blowup shows mucus and buildup

The pics I took actually ARE under white lights.. lol. I'll try to take better pics, maybe a video of them if that's better.

Okay, let me see if I understand this correctly..

So I should get formalin and mix it in a SEPARATE container (NOT the QT tank) and dip the fish in it. If formalin isn't available (which is true.. I don't have any on hand) then I can do a freshwater dip for them.

Then in the actual QT tank I can dose quick cure or ruby rally pro. Right?

 

[MnFish1]

Velvet is a single cell flagellate that causes disease hence its powdery appearance made up of spores rather than theronts

This is fundamentally no different from multiple other parasites.

 

[1Meshy]

It is unclear.

IF - the royal gramma is upside-down - as it appears? in the pictures - that is an extremely bad sign. More history is needed. In the mean time - I would set up a QT tank immediately (even if its a 5 gallon bucket - and prepare to treat with medication. Brooklynella is treated differently than ICH EDIT - /velvet/ - and thus it's important for more information.

No, its not upside down. It's just on its side in a little container that's in the tank.
This may be a dumb question, but can inverts bring parasites? Apart from the royal gramma, I did also introduce two cleaner shrimp into the tank.

 

[MnFish1]

The pics I took actually ARE under white lights.. lol. I'll try to take better pics, maybe a video of them if that's better.

Okay, let me see if I understand this correctly..

So I should get formalin and mix it in a SEPARATE container (NOT the QT tank) and dip the fish in it. If formalin isn't available (which is true.. I don't have any on hand) then I can do a freshwater dip for them.

Then in the actual QT tank I can dose quick cure or ruby rally pro. Right?

I think what he is saying - is
1. If you can get formalin - use that per the protocol.
2. If you cannot - you can buy time with a freshwater dip.
3. If you can get Ruby Reef Rally Pro - that would likely be helpful.

 

[vetteguy53081]

No, its not upside down. It's just on its side in a little container that's in the tank.
This may be a dumb question, but can inverts bring parasites? Apart from the royal gramma, I did also introduce two cleaner shrimp into the tank.

While they can, there is low probability. From appearance of fish, this is likely going on/developing at least a couple of days

 

[MnFish1]

No, its not upside down. It's just on its side in a little container that's in the tank.
This may be a dumb question, but can inverts bring parasites? Apart from the royal gramma, I did also introduce two cleaner shrimp into the tank.

It would be uncommon - but yes - especially if some of the water from your inverts got into your tank - and if your inverts were living with fish. Some fish parasites also can just live in a tank without a host.

 

[1Meshy]

PS while typing - I did not see @vetteguy53081 's response. IMHO - it could be brooylynella on both fish - I do not see ICH per se. Are the fish breathing rapidly, eating, etc - Pictures are nearly impossible to make a diagnosis. And A severe velvet infection will also cause think mucus - as will chemical injury etc etc. I posted a link - with questions you can try to answer to help us help you

I'll answer the questions here.

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Reef, Fish-only, Quarantine tank: (Reef with inverts)
Aquarium water volume: (29 gallons)
Filtration type: (chaeto, rocks for bacteria, filter pad, purigen)
Lighting: (AI Prime HD)
How long has the aquarium been established?: (7 years)
Digital image of the aquarium under white light

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
Temperature: ~80 degrees
pH: 7.8
Salinity / specific gravity: 1.025
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 25ppm
Phosphorus: .02ppm
Copper: Unknown (most likely none because of inverts)
Other

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? (The anthias I'm holding for my friend were actually two females. While the other one is alive and well, the other one just died today. She had an odd lesion at the base of her tail.)
Are any invertebrates affected? (Inverts seem fine.)
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4) (Have to calculate this..)
Are the affected fish still feeding? (All fish were eating yesterday. Have not fed them today yet.)
What remedies have you tried so far? (None so far.)
Digital image of the fish with the health issue, taken under white light -
- if needed, indicate by drawing a line around the area in question.
Short video of the fish (linked YouTube videos work well)

 

[MnFish1]

This is my opinion - and then I'm going to sleep:

1. You can set up a QT tank with no bacteria - you just have to watch ammonia and do water changes as needed - carefully matching parameters.
2. You can use the bacterial product you have - which per my reading/knowledge can be used in Fresh and saltwater - usually to 'clean a tank' - however - it also says it contains bacteria that help nitrification. If that was all I had - thats what I would use (as compared to nothing) - with aeration.
3. To me it's unclear whether there is 1 or 2 different diseases going on in your tank. As already said - better pictures would help everyone - as well as more history. Etc.
4. If you want to treat - take the fish into a QT tank - use Ruby Reef Rally Pro - which contains both formalin as well as an antibiotic. It may not work as quickly as other medications (i.e. copper) - but since we don't know what the fish have. As I think @Spare time said - it's a good option.

Sorry to have so many differing opinions - these are mine. Based on what I've seen/heard. A fresh-water dip - which can be stressful - can also be done - for all of the fish - and may buy time while you work out the other details. Hope this helps.

 

[1Meshy]

You can use stresszyme - but it is a temporary fix. Its a bit of a different kind of bacteria

Would it be better to get biospira then? I believe the petco near me has some in stock. I could pick it up tomorrow

 

[MnFish1]

I'll answer the questions here.

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Reef, Fish-only, Quarantine tank: (Reef with inverts)
Aquarium water volume: (29 gallons)
Filtration type: (chaeto, rocks for bacteria, filter pad, purigen)
Lighting: (AI Prime HD)
How long has the aquarium been established?: (7 years)
Digital image of the aquarium under white light

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
Temperature: ~80 degrees
pH: 7.8
Salinity / specific gravity: 1.025
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 25ppm
Phosphorus: .02ppm
Copper: Unknown (most likely none because of inverts)
Other

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? (The anthias I'm holding for my friend were actually two females. While the other one is alive and well, the other one just died today. She had an odd lesion at the base of her tail.)
Are any invertebrates affected? (Inverts seem fine.)
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4) (Have to calculate this..)
Are the affected fish still feeding? (All fish were eating yesterday. Have not fed them today yet.)
What remedies have you tried so far? (None so far.)
Digital image of the fish with the health issue, taken under white light -
- if needed, indicate by drawing a line around the area in question.
Short video of the fish (linked YouTube videos work well)

Thanks for the detailed description - Much appreciated.

 

[MnFish1]

Would it be better to get biospira then? I believe the petco near me has some in stock. I could pick it up tomorrow

You can get biospira. Most of the time - when treating fish disease - time is of the essence. I agree with the others - the bacterial product you currently have is not 'first choice' - but it's IMHO better than nothing.

 

[1Meshy]

Alright, so based on what everyone has said I've come up with a solution (hopefully.. lol).

-Use the fresh 10 gallon saltwater mix that's in my tub as my makeshift QT tank.
-Put biospira in tub along with aeration, filter and heater.
-Do a quick freshwater dip for all the fish (no formalin on hand).
-Put fish in QT tub.
-Put either quick cure or ruby rally pro in QT.

Couple questions though.
Do I just leave all corals and inverts in the DT?
How long should the fish be in QT?
Do I have to do water changes throughout the entire QT process?
When is it okay to put the fish back into the DT?
How long should I dip the fish in freshwater?

It just amazes me that after 7 years of reefing I finally come into contact with a parasite. I cry :'(

 

[1Meshy]

Just put in an order for ruby rally pro and a small filter for the QT. Should arrive on Sunday.
I also ordered biospira and that should come in tomorrow.
Sucks that I can't start treatment until Sunday...

 

[1Meshy]

Quick question for anyone to answer..

I just saw that ruby rally pro can technically be put into a reef environment because it's safe with fish, plants, corals and invertebrates. Even though I know a QT is the best option, how bad would it be if I were to dose the whole DT with ruby rally?

 

[Tamberav]

Actually I do have 10 gallons of fresh saltwater mixing right now in a rubbermaid tub. I was originally going to use it for a WC tomorrow. Can I use that?
Also I do have API stress zyme, no biospira. Could that work?

Petco has biospira. Can pick it up when you get a chance. I have no experience with stress zone. It is probably not identical. I just mentioned biospira because it is generally easy to find locally and one of the better products to speed up cycling.