HELP!!!! Fish Keep Dying......

[lpsouth1978]

IIRC, flared gills on a dead fish is a common sign of ammonia damaging the gills, so @LordofCinder may be on to something here. Adding so many fish to a new tank could overwhelm the bacteria and allow Ammonia to rise too high quickly.

 

[Spdjnky]

Did any of your fish that died look like this a marking.
If so you have Uronema and going fallow will not sure the problem you must sterilize everything. I found out the hard way from not quarantining the new fish I bought you can gamble if you want and sometimes it may never cause you problems like the earlier person posted that's not a chance I will take again with everything I've had to go through good luck

 

[Paul B]

The nitrate may be 0-20 based on what the tester i have is showing me.

That is a very big difference but it doesn't matter as nitrate didn't kill your fish

and yes this is the acclimation i've been advised to do from my LFS.

Acclimating a fish by floating a bag in your tank is the same as not acclimating at all. You need to gradually mix some of your tank water with the water in the bag. I put the fish into a plastic container, about a gallon for a small fish then gradually over maybe 20 minutes add a little tank water at a time and test if the salinity and temp is the same as my tank. Then I lift the fish by hand or a net depending on what kind of fish it is and put it in the tank.

Or of course you can drip acclimate. That method of acclimating you used could have caused your Royal Gramma to try to jump out and sink to the bottom, but many fish will do that when put in a new tank anyway.

Flared gills and mouth agape is usually ammonia poisoning but I don't think it is that being your corals are OK.

It is starting to look like uronema as the above posted said. But without seeing the fish, we are all guessing.

The next time something dies, get a small microscope or like I use a jewelers loupe like they use for diamonds. You can get a cheap plastic one for a couple of bucks and look into it's gills. If it has parasites, they are easy to see and look like salt grains but smaller.
Without doing even a basic necroscopy like that, it is a guess.
If the cops find a dead person and he looks fine, they have to take him to a coroner who takes the body apart to find the cause of death. But if they have to pry him out from between the wheels of a train they can usually determine the cause of death. :oops:

 

[brandon429]

There is no possible way ammonia factors here

its also untrue that if we dont stagger fish additions, ammonia might be uncontrolled. Not the case.

a reef tank carries the full number of fish it can carry nh3 wise after the cycle, it doesn’t get stronger over time. Cycled is cycled. Surfaces are not missing bacteria awaiting more fish to pack more bac

if there’s water the bac seat in place fully



We have to add more surface area to handle more fish if we break the limits, we can’t pack more bacteria on to existing surfaces as that lowers surface area if we did and tank currents don’t permit it anyway. Just because someone adds more Dr Tim’s right now to a running reef doesn’t mean it goes right to the rocks and produces and even more able cycle, thats not true.
it will be sinked and skimmed off as aggregate, the rocks self manage their own colonies because there’s water and feed present, even without fish.


when folks add fish back to a fallowed tank, they don’t get a mini cycle.


humans are not controlling water bac with their every whim, this is only a forum claim.

disease is the issue here. Not that anyone will agree lol but we have enough surface area studies on file can link an example for any claim made, and if you post the issue in this forum ammonia won’t be factored either:
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-and-diagnosis.771/


missing from that forum: any links of tanks fixed by non quarantine advocates. It’s always their own tank that is the focus, but above you can see work involving others tanks.

notice what is being used for years, pages there.

**of course several folks posting here don’t fallow / QT and have top reefs, communication of that ability is the challenge.

it takes orders steps as shown in the fish disease to get statistically significant patterns. If that’s an untrue statement we will soon see a no quarantine link with half as many fixes.

that doesn’t mean QT is best or fixes anything best, it means the only ordered and patterned work threads you can find using others tanks are in that forum. Non qt advocates have their own tanks as proof, that forum uses others tanks for patterning and the bar is much higher for logged participation there.

by having ones own tank as the example, all disclosures are controlled and subject to reporting bias and sheer artistic skill which doesn’t list very well as ordered steps.

qt has ordered steps and timing however, we can see.

by having four hundred random reefers evaluate a given claim, you get to see what patterns become evident. Qt and fallow comprises all the threads in stickies in the disease forum, zoos use the method.


you can firmly rule out ammonia.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/suddenly-add-20-fish-to-established-tank.806557/#post-8622731

 

[Chronic]

So a little update guys. Got my water tested at my LFS and the parameters came back:
1.025 salinity
minimal nitrites and nitrates ( all most no hue in the water color tester to test)
7.8 ph
0 ammonia

According to them my tank hasn’t established enough bacteria to withstand the bio load that i was throwing at it. Most likely due to me having the skimmer and UV on when i was dosing the tank. This also led to a dinoflagellate problem in the tank. So i will be dosing the tank with Microbacter7 for the next month or so to help establish it better. Also will try overfeeding per recommended to help with the process.

My next update will come when i add my next fish. As for now i will enjoy the company of my little survivor chromi.

Again i just wanna thank everyone for the help during this process i really appreciate it.

 

[Spdjnky]

Hope you quarantine any new fish you add to your tank. If you don't want to like me you cane find quarantined fish here for sale and allot other good info.
https://humble.fish/community/index.phpGood Luck

 

[brandon429]

none of that is the case above, the measures or causes and effects by the LFS but they made a good sale. in the end we're just trying to do whats best for fish no harm in getting a second opinion that's for sure.

you'll want to stick with forums for the right advice, they just got ten bucks from you with no application to the matter at all.

here's proof you did nothing to harm your tanks bacteria
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sustained-ammonia-spikes-are-misreads.802470/page-2#post-8675208


the lfs wasn't trying to rip you off, they honestly believe what they diagnosed so no harm no foul.

not any reef tanks fail to control their ammonia given no broad insult, that's how you know they're wrong though anyway.

check out all those pages of claims, no broad insults on file to actually cause the reading. it was all test ramblings and different guesstimates causing the panic and buys. Your tank has no room for new bac, and its taking away oxygen from other animals to add them, they left that part out. in the end that open spaced nice current reef has spare 02 to share, but its not helping at all to add them

nobody in the dinos thread is winning much by adding that doser.

 

[Chronic]

none of that is the case above, the measures or causes and effects by the LFS but they made a good sale. in the end we're just trying to do whats best for fish no harm in getting a second opinion that's for sure.

you'll want to stick with forums for the right advice, they just got ten bucks from you with no application to the matter at all.

here's proof you did nothing to harm your tanks bacteria
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sustained-ammonia-spikes-are-misreads.802470/page-2#post-8675208


the lfs wasn't trying to rip you off, they honestly believe what they diagnosed so no harm no foul.

not any reef tanks fail to control their ammonia given no broad insult, that's how you know they're wrong though anyway.

check out all those pages of claims, no broad insults on file to actually cause the reading. it was all test ramblings and different guesstimates causing the panic and buys. Your tank has no room for new bac, and its taking away oxygen from other animals to add them, they left that part out. in the end that open spaced nice current reef has spare 02 to share, but its not helping at all to add them

nobody in the dinos thread is winning much by adding that doser.

Didn’t know that about the bacteria so it really helps going forward with the new regimen im trying to set up for the tank. and thank you, i will be looking into the dinos threads as well as exploring other threads and not not taking my LFS suggestions as the only possible solution.

 

[fishmonkey]

Going forth i will be getting a full test done at my LFS and re-list the proper parameters. Their test kits are more precise so i will be able to give you guys more accurate readings.

And thanks everyone for the quick responses , im loving the support of the reefing community so far

coming from a background in cars and being involved in those communities its like a breath of fresh air lol

is your tank cycled? try adding one fish a week at the most.

 

[brandon429]

been going on for about 4 months now


for sure is cycled and ok for use. Fish disease / fallow and qt will help his issue

dinos are common today they’re tough to manage either way

 

[Tamberav]

Where do you get your fish from? WWC? They don’t QT fish from what I know of. I wouldn’t put my faith in them for fish. Don’t get star struck.

If salinity matches I float and release fish. If it’s off.. then drip. If it’s shipped but different salinity then match some water to it on the spot and get it out of the nasty bag water.

 

[StvCrs]

SORRY for your losses; that has to be hard but hang in there. What is salinity where fish are coming from? How long were the fish at the store before you bought and moved to your home?

Agree your 1.025 seems fine, but some shops keep their salinity much lower so then drip acclimation or QT tank is needed. If they think you are keeping salinity at same levels they are using, they perhaps would say that. I have a little 5g Petco combo I use as a QT to observe as I raise salinity

World Wide Corals shipped me corals as recently as winter 2020. However maybe right now its time to visit other LFS and not have all your (fish) eggs in one basket...

WWC keeps their fish salinity at 30ppt. I always do drip acclimation.

 

[Kris 2020]

That is a very big difference but it doesn't matter as nitrate didn't kill your fish

Acclimating a fish by floating a bag in your tank is the same as not acclimating at all. You need to gradually mix some of your tank water with the water in the bag. I put the fish into a plastic container, about a gallon for a small fish then gradually over maybe 20 minutes add a little tank water at a time and test if the salinity and temp is the same as my tank. Then I lift the fish by hand or a net depending on what kind of fish it is and put it in the tank.

Or of course you can drip acclimate. That method of acclimating you used could have caused your Royal Gramma to try to jump out and sink to the bottom, but many fish will do that when put in a new tank anyway.

Flared gills and mouth agape is usually ammonia poisoning but I don't think it is that being your corals are OK.

It is starting to look like uronema as the above posted said. But without seeing the fish, we are all guessing.

The next time something dies, get a small microscope or like I use a jewelers loupe like they use for diamonds. You can get a cheap plastic one for a couple of bucks and look into it's gills. If it has parasites, they are easy to see and look like salt grains but smaller.
Without doing even a basic necroscopy like that, it is a guess.
If the cops find a dead person and he looks fine, they have to take him to a coroner who takes the body apart to find the cause of death. But if they have to pry him out from between the wheels of a train they can usually determine the cause of death. :oops:

Hi OP, you are getting a lot of different advice here. Paul B has a wealth of experience just FYI. In 15+ years in the hobby I have never drip acclimated a fish, only sensitive inverts. Adding tank water a bit at a time as described above works well. You can drip acclimate but many people do this incorrectly and plop the fish in a bucket or other container outside the tank and the temp drops too quickly.