Help...Green Hair Algae is driving me crazy

[grassy_noel]

Hi All,

I know this topic has been played out a million times, and I feel like I've read 20 different threads and watched 50 different youtube videos about how to get rid of Green Hair Algae (GHA), but since I value the expertise and input of folks on R2R, I thought I would ask for your advice about how to solve my own version of the problem. So here goes:

My tank is an Innovative Marine Nuvo Fusion 20 (system volume ~15 gallons). It completed cycling with dry rock in October 2017, which makes it about 6 months old. It currently houses two ocellaris clownfish and 16 coral frags, mostly LPS, with a couple simple SPS (birdsnest, monti, and psammacorra). CUC is two tiny hermits, ~10 cerith snails, and 5 trochus snails.

My current parameters are Calcium 425-475 ppm, Alkalinity 7.8-8.4 dKH, and Magnesium 1,320-1,400 ppm over the last 3 months. My nitrates have never read more than 1 ppm, and my phosphates have never read anything but 0.00 on my Hanna Low Range checker, and maybe 0.01 for my Red Sea test kit. Salinity is very stable at 34.5-35.0, and temperature runs between 77.0-78.0 controlled by Apex. pH could be higher, but stays between 8.0-8.2 99% of the time.

Over the last six months I have used NoPoX, then a macroalgae reactor, then NoPoX again for nutrient export. I've had generally good luck with NoPoX, although I only dose about 0.25 ml per day. My macroalgae reactor was a failed experiment. While using it I stopped dosing NoPoX, but due to low nutrients, my chaeto died twice and ended up serving more as a nutrient source than sync. After the second death I removed the reactor (about 3 weeks ago) and resumed dosing NoPoX.

My GHA problem started about 4 weeks ago after I moved the tank from my old condo to my new house. The move went great, everything survived. During the move, I threw out my old sand (oolite = too fine) and replaced with dead CaribSea Aragonite, special grade. With fresh sand and almost no nuisance algae at the time, I was afraid my CUC would starve, so after the move I started a two week regimen of re-dirtying the tank (probably a bad idea). I reintroduced pods from AlgaeBarn, I fed occasional tiny hikari algae wafers (1 per week), I was dosing phytoplankton daily to feed the pods and dosing Red Sea Reef Energy daily to feed the corals. All along I have fed about 40 tiny hikari marine pellets to my clowns, daily. Needless to say, this was probably too much. However, it's interesting to note that my nitrates never went above 0.25 ppm during this time and phosphates stayed at 0.00. I test all parameters weekly.

After that two week "dirtying" period, I noticed my GHA was starting to change from a thin carpet coating the rocks to long ugly strands 1"+ in length. In the past two weeks they have gotten worse and worse, despite dropping my feeding back to daily pellets for the clowns, only. During the "dirtying", the color of my corals also got much more vivid, and I noticed my first spots of coralline algae appearing.

Now, I'm trying to get rid of the GHA by minimal feeding, dosing NoPoX (even though NO3/PO4 are undetectable), bi-weekly 20% water changes with gravel vacuuming and blowing off all the rocks. I'm also manually removing as much as I can by hand and with a toothbrush, weekly. As always, I change filter socks/pads twice a week. On Sunday night the tank looks great, by the following Saturday its overrun again.

I'm at the point of considering either Phosphate RX (on Melev's Reef's recommendation), or fluconazole (several success stories on R2R and youtube). I just can't afford the time to clean this junk out every weekend, my wife won't have my 4 hour maintenance sessions anymore. So, I need to do something. I'm hoping this group can help me out.

I've attached a couple photos of the stuff for reference. It's growing all over the rocks (you can see it at the edges of the rock) and even in small patches on the substrate. It's browny-green, does not branch or fern at all (like photos I've seen of Bryopsis), and grows in thickets about 1" long.

What is obvious that I'm missing? What can I do differently? What can I do better? What extreme measures should I take or not take?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

IMO. You’re ugly phase is almost done.

You need more herbivores In your Cuc. Try asterias.

I’d stop with the bottles of stuff.

Flunoazole will work.

 

[grassy_noel]

IMO. You’re ugly phase is almost done.

You need more herbivores In your Cuc. Try asterias.

I’d stop with the bottles of stuff.

Flunoazole will work.

Thanks, that’s really encouraging. I know, I went a little crazy with potions. I’m trying to scale back to something much simpler.

I will look into Asteria snails.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Thanks, that’s really encouraging. I know, I went a little crazy with potions. I’m trying to scale back to something much simpler.

I will look into Asteria snails.

You’re welcome. It’s common. I’m a snails and toothbrush guy myself.

 

[mcarroll]

My nitrates have never read more than 1 ppm, and my phosphates have never read anything but 0.00 on my Hanna Low Range checker, and maybe 0.01 for my Red Sea test kit

Many things are trying to grow and use up the nutrients you put in – not just nuisance algae. Starving them is not helpful...

It completed cycling with dry rock in October 2017, which makes it about 6 months old.

...especially not for a new tank.

Over the last six months I have used NoPoX, then a macroalgae reactor, then NoPoX again for nutrient export.

With no detectable nutrients...

My macroalgae reactor was a failed experiment.

...why are you doing these things?

During the move, I threw out my old sand (oolite = too fine) and replaced with dead CaribSea Aragonite, special grade.

Good move in general, but complicated by your anti-nutrient stance...as a new aragonite sand bed can have a large capacity to adsorb phosphates, placing additional pressure on the tank's constrained supply.

With fresh sand and almost no nuisance algae at the time, I was afraid my CUC would starve, so after the move I started a two week regimen of re-dirtying the tank (probably a bad idea). I reintroduced pods from AlgaeBarn, I fed occasional tiny hikari algae wafers (1 per week), I was dosing phytoplankton daily to feed the pods and dosing Red Sea Reef Energy daily to feed the corals. All along I have fed about 40 tiny hikari marine pellets to my clowns, daily.

Dang.

Needless to say, this was probably too much. However, it's interesting to note that my nitrates never went above 0.25 ppm during this time and phosphates stayed at 0.00. I test all parameters weekly.

No miracle given what you were throwing at the tank....but also not helpful in the least....for the tank or toward your goal of making the algae go away.

I'm at the point of considering either Phosphate RX (on Melev's Reef's recommendation), or fluconazole (several success stories on R2R and youtube).

Those amount to hitting the eject button or punting 10 yards from the goal or....well, I'm out of analogies.

Save those things for your next tank, or never.

Boo.

What is obvious that I'm missing? What can I do differently? What can I do better? What extreme measures should I take or not take?

Lots!

Foremost – take a step back and enjoy your tank!!! It looks great. Algae you have isn't even that bad.

From here on keep cool – no more panics. You're obviously (look at the tank!) doing fine when you don't try so hard.

Rely harder on the natural method.

Increase that CUC so they aren't losing ground every time you go in and scrub the tank.

Snails are no good for long algae, but they LOVE fresh-growing nubbins. They are limited by a tiny mouth and the rate of nubbins growth – so more numbers to kepp ALL THE ALGAE in nubbins-state!

Consider adding more size-variety to your CUC as well as outright numbers.

Make all changes to the system smaller and less frequent.

Balance nutrients when they get out of whack rather than trying to remove them.

Removing them is not a simple cure anyway, as you found out.

Remember that nitrates and phosphates are only two of a couple-few dozen critical nutrients, which include macro- micro- and trace-nutrients.

When you make any increase in feeding – you increase ALL of the nutrients going into the tank.

Nitrates and phosphates are special, being macro nutrients (as well as in other ways) – so they get used up a LOT more than most other nutrients.

This means that there is a tendency for some other nutrients to build up even when nitrates and phosphates are being persistently depleted. Do you know how carbon dosing affects your nitrates and phosphates? Do you know any of carbon dosing's side effects?

As you've found, many algae have alternate strategies for acquiring nitrogen – they actually prefer ammonium and other forms of N, as well some algae cooperate with diazotrophs and other organisms that have access to other forms of N or P. So algae in general are really good at using available nutrients...and since you're feeding the tank daily, you're fighting a losing battle if you go head to head vs algae. Hence CUC and moves toward more tank stability.....stability is a euphemism for all of the microbes that come together to maintain a stable reef. They need things to be predictable and healthy.

Honestly, I think you mostly just fell behind on CUC numbers.....the move and carbon dosing, algae reactor and the rest of the bottles just made things worse. Which, again, the tank is not really all that bad off. Boost that CUC!

 

[grassy_noel]

Wow! This is incredibly detailed and helpful. As I read your response, many of the things you're saying are like "ah ha" now, but at the time I just wasn't seeing them.

I'm really trying to back off on big changes or weird dosing of stuff, and being more "natural". I did some light cleaning of the tank this weekend (tooth-brushing the really long hairs), but otherwise I'm planning to stick to foundation elements dosing (Ca, Alk, Mg), reasonable feeding of the fish, and regular water changes.

As you say, though, I probably need to consider diversifying (and increasing) my CUC. Any recommendations? Different species of snails? Different types of crabs? Shrimp, Urchin, others?

Finally, I am a bit curious by your questions about carbon dosing.

This means that there is a tendency for some other nutrients to build up even when nitrates and phosphates are being persistently depleted. Do you know how carbon dosing affects your nitrates and phosphates? Do you know any of carbon dosing's side effects?

I think I understand the general chemistry/biology of carbon dosing, but given your questions I think you're suggesting I don't (which may very well be the case). Are you suggesting that I should not be carbon dosing, or just that I should understand it better? And if you think I should not carbon dose, do you have a preferred method of nutrient reduction other than just water changes?

Thanks again!

 

[mcarroll]

Finally, I am a bit curious by your questions about carbon dosing.

I think I understand the general chemistry/biology of carbon dosing, but given your questions I think you're suggesting I don't (which may very well be the case). Are you suggesting that I should not be carbon dosing, or just that I should understand it better?

It was a two sided question.

On the one hand, as you may already know, most folks who start out carbon dosing don't get that it's a nitrate-reduction method. Reduction of phosphates or other nutrients is a coincidence and very small effect by comparison. Some folks even think it's not just for remediation, but that it's actually a beneficial practice for corals – like they're feeding their reef with it. Maybe true on a level, but also coincidental...as well as unnecessary. The corals and algae we care about are all from carbon-limited environments...and arguably the carbon-limitation is what allows their success against bacteria. (Without carbon limitation, bacteria have the potential to use up available nutrients down to a level that will starve other critters – effectively zero.)

On the other hand, most folks also don't know any of the potential negative side-effects. From reading about carbon dosing you'd be hard pressed to know there can even be a potential downside that isn't "bacterial mats". I've never seen bacterial mats, but I've seen lots of bad side-effects – from coral starvation to promotion of harmful algae. Find and read an old Eric Borneman article that talks about carbon dosing....one of very few folks that accurately predicted the problems to any extent. Can't remember for sure, but it might have been on advancedaquarist.

Carbon dosing, most importantly, does what it's namesake implies – it alters the organic carbon content of your water and therefore of your reef. Global microbialization of coral reefs is an article that explains what goes on in wild reefs when similar pollution – persistently elevated organic carbon levels along with unnatural influxes of N and P – happens there. (Holler if you read it! )

And if you think I should not carbon dose, do you have a preferred method of nutrient reduction other than just water changes?

I'd get off the nutrient reduction bandwagon.

First consider the nature of a "nutrient problem". Where would it come from? If one exists, you created it, so you can go back and do it different – avoid it next time.

Second, the concept of "removing excess nutrients" is nice, but very misleading.....you don't put in food and then "sweep up the mess" afterward like if was confetti left over from a party.

It's reef, so it's not that simple. Check out Response of heterotrophic bacteria, autotrophic picoplankton and heterotrophic nanoflagellates to re-oligotrophication to see how the system reacts to the removal of nutrients. (Again, holler if you check that one out.)

Third, ask yourself why you're worried about nutrients in the first place. Are you overdoing the nutrients you're adding to the tank? Do you add livestock too fast, causing algae problems? If you worry only because of something you read, then keep in mind what nutrients are:

nu·tri·ent
ˈn(y)o͞otrēənt/
noun
plural noun: nutrients

1. a substance that provides nourishment essential for growth and the maintenance of life.

Grow corals that can use them! Grow algae that can use them! Grow herbivores that can use the algae! Grow! That's what the tank is really for anyway, right?

The trick is to take your time and make sure you put it all together in a balanced fashion. Most folks rush every stage and don't pay a lot of attention to balance – the resulting problems are fairly predictable.


BTW, one Borneman link to start you off:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/eb/feature/index.htm

Go back through their old backisues for more Borneman.....think that's prolly where I read it.

 

[grassy_noel]

Again, incredible response and thank you so much! If it wasn't my son's first birthday this weekend, I'd say I would spend my whole weekend reading through the links you provided. Instead, hopefully I'll get to it next week. Can't wait!

 

[mcarroll]

Happy Birthday to him!!

 

[K. Steven]

+1 to upping snail numbers, just do so slowly. Try reaching some equilibrium where algae growth is matched by consumption by herbivores. Then, everything in your tank will be happy.

A lot of people think...

 

[grassy_noel]

I added a few more Astrea snails and a cleaner shrimp yesterday. I was looking for an emerald crab but my LFS didn't have any in stock. I've been wanting a shrimp since starting my tank and even though I'm skeptical it will eat much algae, it seems like a good general cleaner (at least the name implies it)...

After my last toothbrush scrub on Sunday the algae seems to be coming back a bit more slowly. I'll do my regular 20% water change this weekend and probably another mini-scrub with the old toothbrush, but things seem to be generally improving.

Slowly, but surely...slowly...

 

[mcarroll]

I've been wanting a shrimp since starting my tank and even though I'm skeptical it will eat much algae

"Cleaner" in the same sense as Cleaner Wrasse....nothing to do with tank maintenance, unfortunately.

 

[grassy_noel]

"Cleaner" in the same sense as Cleaner Wrasse....nothing to do with tank maintenance, unfortunately.

Ugh...was hoping it might eat some detritus, but perhaps not. Either way it looks cool I guess...

 

[Paul B]

What algae? Go out to dinner and forget about it. Try the Pino Noir and the squid.
It's normal and fine. I would not add or remove anything.

 

[grassy_noel]

Man, I don’t know. I really appreciate everyone’s feedback, but I don't seem to be making any improvement. Since I started this thread I have done the following:

1. Stopped dosing anything except 12 drops of NoPoX per day, which I’ve been doing all along in this system. For the last 3 days I've decided to stop this as well (although I can't see that helping my GHA issue).

2. Feeding very cautiously. I make sure my fish and shrimp eat every pellet before I add more. I haven't been feeding the corals at all.

3. Manually scrubbing and removing (or filtering out) as much algae as I possibly can every week.

4. 20% water change every other week.

5. Added a few more snails (I've also seen about 2-3 cerith snails die).

This weekend the algae is back worse than ever. Now covering a lot of the rockwork and tons of spots on the substrate bed. Even worse, with all this extra nutrient 'rationing' my corals seem to be suffering. I think I will lose a psammacorra frag that had been previously doing very well. It has no polyp extension and looks to be turning from yellow to white. You can see it in the top left of the second photo, below. But of greatest concern is that my coralline algae growth has slowed substantially. I've been looking at coralline algae as my only hope, assuming that once it covers my rock it will be more difficult for GHA to take hold on the rocks. But if all this nutrient reduction is preventing coralline from spreading, then I'll never make up any ground.

At my wits end, I ordered some fluconazole, but I selected ground shipping so it will be at least a week before it arrives. I know this is a last resort, but I can’t see how this gets better otherwise. I can’t seem to get ahead of the algae and any tiny increase in nutrients seems to make the GHA explode.

Some photos are below. Tomorrow I plan to do another scrubbing and sucking session of the GHA and I'll wait another week to see if I'm making any improvement. If not, next week I may try to 'nuke' the GHA with fluconazole, just in hopes of getting ahead of it...

Please help if you have specific ideas for what I could do otherwise. Thanks!

 

[mcarroll]

Stop dosing carbon now...not later. You're throwing your corals up against not just algae, but also bacteria for that limited nutrient supply. Corals will lose that battle.

Your algae is using PO4 from the substrate and has access to forms of nitrogen other than nitrates, so you can forget controlling them...you're gonna have to learn to live with them.

Starving the tank of dissolved nutrients is likely to be compounding your algae issue, as competitors to the algae get weaker and fewer.....your coraline algae, for one visible example.

Remember that your tank is going through the uglies phase.

You will need to be OK with it getting uglier before it gets pretty.

Resisting will only make it worse and can even ruin the system if you bring on something like a dino bloom if your really try to force things. I can't recommend using a drug to kill off the algae either....same reasons.

Instead, start correcting things. Starting with nitrates and phosphates....and maybe including lights as well.

Dose nitrates and phosphates and reduce your photoperiod by a few hours.

Post an update when you're ready on those fronts!

 

[grassy_noel]

Wow, ok. This is the first I’ve heard that I should just let the algae go rampant. Everything else I’ve read or heard says I should be physically removing it, starving it, killing it, etc.

If I am to take your approach, how would it unfold? I start slowly increasing nitrate and phosphate and the corals get healthier while the GHA explodes? And then how does it end? Eventually the GHA just goes away? Or should I be pulling it out as fast as I can every week?

I am intrigued and willing to try this, I just can’t picture how this ever resolves the issue. If you can explain how it would get better, I’ll give it a try.

 

[Retro Reefer]

I don’t think anybody means literally let it overtake your tank just stop beating yourself up trying to fight it on so many levels.. I have been reefing off and on for 35 years and have had hair algae in just about every tank I have ever had it will pass with time, I wouldn’t putting anything in your water except food for the fish.. find a small hose or even a air line and manually suck up all the longer filaments when doing water changes, use your finger tip to “pinch” algae off against end of hose and just let it get sucked out with the water.. on smaller rocks or frags that you can easily pull out I typically would use a small toothbrush dipped in peroxide to clean around the base.. get yourself lots of snails around 1 per gallon or more just be ready to find a home for them when you algae faze passes, I like a mixture of turbos and Margarita Snails.. the margaritas will plow through hair algae like crazy but I have never had luck Keeping them long term, turbos are very hardy I’ve had some in my tanks for years but they tend to be lazy and mostly eat short hair algae or the film on your glass.. it could take many months for it to run its course just be patient slow and steady wins the race in reefing.

 

[cracker]

Hello Grassy, Mcarroll helped me with the same issue. I speak from experience Only. I added a "bunch" of snails at little at a time. Brought up the nutrient levels from zero to just a little & kept up with the manual removal of the ha. It's been a lesson in patience for sure but looks a lot better,still have some. Also I went Bare bottom & was amazed at all the crud that builds up. All this was going into the sand bed. You gotta keep vacuuming the sand which I deplored doing ! Also treating with peroxide to help with manual removal works very well. Lot's of different way to do it. so far it's working for me & slowly improving.

 

[grassy_noel]

Thanks @Retro Reefer and @cracker . So since my post on the 19th, here's what's happened:

• Over the last month, I have gradually added to my cleanup crew. I now have: ~10 cerith snails, 6 nerite snails, 5 trochus snails, 3 astrea snails, 2 tiny hermit crabs, 1 emerald crab, 1 cleaner shrimp (I know it doesn't eat algae, but it eats a lot of food waste off the substrate). At this point I'm highly skeptical that more cleanup crew would be helpful. I am already making arrangements with my LFS to bring some back if/when this algae issue clears. Ideally I'd have a total of ~15 snails/crabs (1 per gallon) in the long-run.
• I did stop carbon dosing (was previously dosing NoPoX).
• I switched from feeding pellets every day (probably too many) to feeding 1/4 cube of PE mysis, daily. I may back down even further than this as the two fish and one shrimp did not eat everything in my last feeding. BRS recommended switching to frozen as it's less nutrient-dense. I'm also rinsing in RO before adding to the tank.
• I made a little sucker from RO tubing and an acrylic tube and have been doing the "pinch-suck" removal into a filter sock (twice, now), which really removes a lot. But I can only get to the long hairs with this. For the short-ish hairs I used to use a toothbrush, but now I'm just leaving it, because the toothbrush was just putting all the GHA up in the water column, and I think that's how it seeded all over the substrate. I'll just wait for it to get longer and pinch it out as it grows.
• I manually scooped out all of the substrate that had algae on it, about 25% of it. I'm soaking what I removed in hydrogen peroxide so that I can hopefully put it back in the future.
• On Friday, I took out two small rocks I have, each with one coral (a favia and a GSP), which were both overrun with GHA. I very carefully dripped hydrogen peroxide on the rock where the GHA was, avoiding getting any on the coral. I then rinsed the hydrogen peroxide off with RO water before returning the rocks to the tank. These rocks are now so clean it's not even funny, but I think this also may have killed the corals. They both looked pretty white and closed up when I left on Friday. I'm away until Monday, but we'll see if they come back or are dead when I get home.
• I also vacuumed the gravel and did a 20% water change.
• During my maintenance on Friday, I did my regular water testing. Decreasing my light levels and perhaps other reasons have resulted in a marked decrease in calcium and alkalinity consumption rate, so I had to back down my dosing pumps.
• FINALLY, I am registering some Nitrate and Phosphate in the water. I tested 1.5 ppm Nitrate and 0.02 ppm Phosphate. Maybe this means the algae has slowed down in sucking everything up? Maybe I stirred this up out of the substrate while siphoning? I don't know, but at least I know there is some nutrient in the water for the corals.
• The tank was looking pretty clean when I left, but the corals looked pretty mad from all of my messing around (hands in the water, stirring up the sand, sucking off algae, etc.)

I will post on Monday night or Tuesday when I return. I'm expecting one of three things:

1. Corals look good, with minimal algae return. If that's the case, I'll keep doing what I'm doing, and hopefully the CUC will start to get ahead of the algae over the next few weeks/months. If so, then I'll gradually bring my lights back up (and shift back towards AB+ spectrum instead of essentially All Blue). If the algae clears completely and nitrate and phosphate remain low, I'll also start dosing Red Sea Reef Energy again.
2. Things are looking pretty clean but the corals are still suffering. If this is the case, I'll keep feeding regularly and reintroduce Red Sea Reef Energy to get the nutrients up a bit.
3. Algae has returned with reckless abandon. I'll have to do some real soul searching about how to continue in the hobby. Maybe I'll start an algae-only system...AOWLR?

As always, thanks for all of your help.