Help id algae

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KimG

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Hi guys

First off, thank you all for the help.
The black out progresses.
Normally my filter floss is brown after 24 hours, now is turning nice and green and so is the 1 micron filter. I'm changing them all out every day. So the blackout is clearly having some impact (whether it will help in the long run remains to be seen).

I'm also keeping track of the parameters. So far all stable, apart from Nitrate which is clearly rising (currently somewhere between 5 and 10). I guess second bit of good news.
However, phosphates are still pretty stuck at 0.
So my questions is, should I dose some sodium phosphate to bring it up to 0.05/0.1 or do I leave it alone? #taricha #ScottB

Again, thank you all for the help
filter.jpg
 

taricha

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I'd be a little nervous at zero PO4 and rising NO3. That imbalance can be hard on corals. They handle N limitations better than P limitation.
 
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Update time.

The black out is over.
Well, most algae is gone as expected. Unfortunately some of the frags that were struggling already didn't take it very well and lost more skin, but that was to be expected.
Nitrated raised quiet a bit during the black out, from 2.5 to close to 10.
The rest remained stable, including phosphate at 0. I started to dose sodium phosphate today. Currently at 0.02. I will probably dose some more tomorrow and try to keep it at 0.05/0.1.

There are still some smalls patches of algae which I have mostly shyphoned off (including in the sand) and will keep doing it over the coming days.

I took more samples to the microscope and the mystery green cells seem to be gone. Most of whats left seem to be green cyanobacteria and some dinos. Can some one confirm? #ScottB and #taricha

Now comes the hard part, keeping it clean. Don't really have solid plan, but will try to keep Nitrate between 5 and 10 and phosphate between 0.05 and 0.1. Shyphoning algae as it shows up and continue running the 1 micron filter.

Again, thanks all for the help. It is highly appreciated.

Now the pictures
Before
before 1.jpg
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before 1.jpg
before1.jpg



After
after.jpg
after1.jpg
over all.jpg


Cyanobacteria?
cyano.jpg


Dinos?
dynos.jpg
 

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Sorry I missed your Thursday post here. I agree with taricha on dosing up PO4 so I am glad you got that started. Hopeful that stops the tissue loss. Yes I see cyano (not a problem) and Yes I can make out at least 4 dino cells in the last pic. A tad blurry so difficult to confirm species. Oddly, they each look a bit different to me, but if I had to choose I'd guess procentrum.

Check out this Dino ID guide that @taricha put together. The linked videos in it are very helpful. Four out of the 5 common dinos will enter the water at night and therefor susceptible to UV sterilization. Only Amphidinium cling to the sand during blackout.

If the brown snot returns and you determine your species is NOT amphidinium, I would encourage you to deploy UV. It is very effective.

In any case, keep your nutrients up.

 

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@KimG I agree with what @ScottB said above, the cyano is a green form of spirulina, and the dinos (very few cells, btw) are prorocentrum, probably. Yours is a more circular variety - oval is more typical, but that shape can be quite variable.
The ID document linked above is a good tool for comparison to what your eyes see in the microscope.
 
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Sorry I missed your Thursday post here. I agree with taricha on dosing up PO4 so I am glad you got that started. Hopeful that stops the tissue loss. Yes I see cyano (not a problem) and Yes I can make out at least 4 dino cells in the last pic. A tad blurry so difficult to confirm species. Oddly, they each look a bit different to me, but if I had to choose I'd guess procentrum.

Check out this Dino ID guide that @taricha put together. The linked videos in it are very helpful. Four out of the 5 common dinos will enter the water at night and therefor susceptible to UV sterilization. Only Amphidinium cling to the sand during blackout.

If the brown snot returns and you determine your species is NOT amphidinium, I would encourage you to deploy UV. It is very effective.

In any case, keep your nutrients up.


Hi Scott
No need to apologize. Your help has been awesome.
I have another question.
I will go back to regularly feeding the fish and the lps with meat foods. I will also leave the Acropower off for now.
Should I spot feed the SPS with reefroids, or should I stop that as well?
Thanks

Cheers
 

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Hi Scott
No need to apologize. Your help has been awesome.
I have another question.
I will go back to regularly feeding the fish and the lps with meat foods. I will also leave the Acropower off for now.
Should I spot feed the SPS with reefroids, or should I stop that as well?
Thanks

Cheers

IME you are fine feeding reefroids. I feed them 3-4 times a week well after lights out when polyp extension is greatest.
 
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KimG

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Update time.
They are back.
My beautiful combo of algae (green suckers and Dinos) is slowly spreading again.
A bit on the rocks and sand and slowly taking of on my plating montis. Currently the red monti seems to be the most affected.
I have decided to frag it and transfer half to the small "frag" tank we set up about a month ago, during the STN problem. It has been a bit of hit and miss. My pink seriatopora frags died when I put them there. On the other end, the only piece of the green seriatopora that I have left is there and looking ok. On the main display its all gone. Same with the chalice, which is actually showing signs of growing in the frag tank in about 2 weeks there.

I'm currently keeping nutrients elevated (NO3 around 10/15 and PO4 0.05/0.1) in the main tank. I also have the 1 micro filter in place.
Considering maybe dosing some H2O2, but not really sure. If I need bacteria to grow and compete, dosing the thing that kills them might not be so good.

Some pictures and videos below (sorry for the horrible quality, but trying to hold a phone with one hand and adjusting the microscope woth the other is not very ease). The sample is from the montipora.

Algae on monti. The corals are not showing any sign of dead areas before the algae takes hold.


thumbnail_IMG_20200409_195802.jpg



How the algae collonies look overall

thumbnail_IMG_20200407_172913.jpg


Close up
thumbnail_IMG_20200407_172039.jpg



Video

 

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So, the tank as gone dark.

I siphoned as much as I could yesterday and then covered the tank.
As far as I could see, even by blowing if of the corals and siphoning everyday, the SPS were getting more and more covered, so better to give it a shot.

Still not sure if the green algae is the problem, or if the dinos are causing the problem and the green algae is just taking over. Or if non of them is the problem and something else is, and they are just symptoms.

I will update this thread on Friday or Saturday and then I will follow up on it and update as needed.
I will also measure parameters daily to ensure that there are no drastic changes and spikes.
Currently not running UVs, but I'm running a 1 um cartridge filter that will hopefully catch most of the algae in the water column.

Lets see what comes out of this.
Thank you all for the help so far

dark.jpg

Just noticing something about this picture. Is the tank in front of a window? Natural light can make for some challenges in a small enclosed system.
 
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KimG

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Just noticing something about this picture. Is the tank in front of a window? Natural light can make for some challenges in a small enclosed system.
The tank is in a room facing south. Windows facing east, south and west. We keep the blinds closed on the windows closest to the aquarium. No direct sunlight. When summer comes there will be some direct light in tank between 9 and 10 in the evening.
 

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Couple other points to ponder:

Tissue loss in SPS often lag -- by weeks even -- the stress that set them off. You can be having better parameters today, but seeing the results of "old" stress. Makes it hard to correlate causes and effects. Softies and LPS tend to behave in relatively more "real time" than SPS.

I feel like you should spring for a UV. Not the best of times to be spending on our hobby, but that is by far the most effective tool you could deploy IMO. How much it helps with the green meanies I cannot say for sure unless they release into the water column.

How many gallons? Size suggested is 1 watt per 3 gallons. Very good units are also very expensive.
 
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Couple other points to ponder:

Tissue loss in SPS often lag -- by weeks even -- the stress that set them off. You can be having better parameters today, but seeing the results of "old" stress. Makes it hard to correlate causes and effects. Softies and LPS tend to behave in relatively more "real time" than SPS.

I feel like you should spring for a UV. Not the best of times to be spending on our hobby, but that is by far the most effective tool you could deploy IMO. How much it helps with the green meanies I cannot say for sure unless they release into the water column.

How many gallons? Size suggested is 1 watt per 3 gallons. Very good units are also very expensive.


Hi Scott.
How you have the time to help so many people is beyond me, but I'm really thankful :)
I'm considering getting a 24w green killing machine. I know it's no the best, but the tank only holds a max of 60 gallons (less if I discount rocks and pumps and bulkheads) and I don't plan on running it after the algae are gone.

The green algae does not seem to go in the water collum, or at least it does not seem to reduce at night.

I will have to wait to after Easter on the UV.
 

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You are kind with your words. As to time, retirement helps. Social isolation also has slowed traffic at the LFS where I work part time for fun so this place fills that void for sure.

That device should work for your tank--many have used it for dinos just fine. Keep on reefing!
scott
 

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Last time I saw something that looked those green guys, it was this:


these were euglena. vast majority were motionless, green, round.
but then some would move and elongate (check out 3:50 mark in video)

My thought too!
 
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New update
Not much change.
We installed a UV (24w green killing machine) and are running it 24/7.
Blowing rocks and siphoning out algae.
It stills shows up on the platting montis out of nowhere. If I blow it of immediately it seems to be ok, although it comes back. On the green and red montis it as taken hold an killed half of it.

Since the blackout our nitrates have been higher (Around 10 to 15).
More interestingly, I have been dosing phosphates at a rate of 0.05 ml/l daily and still I get a value of 0 at the end of the day. I'm also dosing it to the small frag tank and there I can measure it. In the tank its all vanishing. The algae isn't that bad and even the scrubber does not seem to be growing that much algae. So I'm not sure where the hell the phosphate is going.
At this point I'm thinking either the rock (they were dry when we started it) or the sand. We added a new bag of sand approximately at the time the algae problem started (ATI White Fiji).

It all seems weird and I'm probably overstretching for a cause/solution, but I find it super strange.

Currently toying with the idea of pulling the plug on the tank, clean it, disinfecting it, buying live rock and restarting.
 

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Hmmm. Sorry you have not seen much improvement yet.

Interesting that you had PO4 at one point in this thread but now you cannot detect. Dinos are very capable consumers for sure. I believe your speculation on where the PO4 is going is correct. Your rock and substrate was depleted of PO4, so it is storing up and binding it. That is very common, and why doing water changes doesn't remove that much PO4, but is very effective at reducing nitrates 1:1.

Once the rock reaches a level of PO4 saturation it will leach back into the water. I would increase your dosage. Rising nitrates after blackout would make sense as some photosynthetic organisms expired.

You will need to accept some coral mortality with nutrient bouncing around. Heck, it is common in all newish (<12mos) tanks that get through the uglies without dinos or your greenie meanies. As to rebooting, I get the frustration, but I would not. This is an ugly phase somewhat more tenacious than many, but is still a phase IMO. In a few months that system will be a year old. In aquarium years, that is like your kids all being potty trained. I would not go back -- even if live rock might give you a smoother start.
 
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Hi Scott.

Thanks ;)

I just missing having a tank like the pictures below, when it was set up with live rocks (sps's thriving in one month)

IMG_20190509_193302.jpg IMG_20190808_185410.jpg Sem Título.jpg
 

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I’m fighting a Dino outbreak now. On the final leg of a 72 hour blackout. Unfortunately lost my gorgeous Naso tang to it and am heartbroken. My tank is much newer than yours and I’ve made a mistake or two along the way even though I’ve tried to be very intentional in everything I do. I started with all dead, dry rock so the day I started the blackout I added 12 pounds of live rock and subtracted some of my original rock. Added 1 bottle each of Microbacter7 and Seed which I happened to have in hand. Turned off pump and wave makers for 2 hours and put in a large air stone on an air pump. By then tank was already blacked out and covered with cardboard. Haven’t run skimmer or UV during blackout to give bacteria a chance to populate. Blackout ends tonight. Saw in one post on this thread that IV water should be taken and returned directly from/to tank and my lines are in the sump so will need to figure out how to reconfigure to make that happen. Skimmer will go back in tonight or tomorrow unless you smart folks think I should hold off on that. I feed my fish several times a day, only have 2 small clowns, a small blue chromis and a smallish Hippo Tang. The Hippo won’t come out to eat but she looks fine when I shine flashlight down on her. All inverts are alive and well. (Snails, crabs and 1 shrimp). Corals are closed up tight, red monti looks fine, green monti not so much.
My Nitrates this morning color was between the 2ppm and 5ppm, were 0 and PO4 via Hanna 0.05

Disclosure: I am not a big hater, but I do hate dinoflagellates.

ME TOO!!!!
Very good units are also very expensive
We purchased a relatively inexpensive unit rated for tank up to 220ish gallons, ours is a 125. It does great. It is a Coralife Turbo-Twist. See pic of intake and output tubing, can see it is working well.
@KimG will keep up with your thread as it is so relevant and I’m really pulling for you!! What do you use to siphon? I haven’t had much luck with turkey baster.

EDC1E4FD-E9FC-46D4-A081-CC27A6BA3B8A.jpeg 29FCE777-5A75-4055-921F-B91C7405C06B.jpeg
 
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I’m fighting a Dino outbreak now. On the final leg of a 72 hour blackout. Unfortunately lost my gorgeous Naso tang to it and am heartbroken. My tank is much newer than yours and I’ve made a mistake or two along the way even though I’ve tried to be very intentional in everything I do. I started with all dead, dry rock so the day I started the blackout I added 12 pounds of live rock and subtracted some of my original rock. Added 1 bottle each of Microbacter7 and Seed which I happened to have in hand. Turned off pump and wave makers for 2 hours and put in a large air stone on an air pump. By then tank was already blacked out and covered with cardboard. Haven’t run skimmer or UV during blackout to give bacteria a chance to populate. Blackout ends tonight. Saw in one post on this thread that IV water should be taken and returned directly from/to tank and my lines are in the sump so will need to figure out how to reconfigure to make that happen. Skimmer will go back in tonight or tomorrow unless you smart folks think I should hold off on that. I feed my fish several times a day, only have 2 small clowns, a small blue chromis and a smallish Hippo Tang. The Hippo won’t come out to eat but she looks fine when I shine flashlight down on her. All inverts are alive and well. (Snails, crabs and 1 shrimp). Corals are closed up tight, red monti looks fine, green monti not so much.
My Nitrates this morning color was between the 2ppm and 5ppm, were 0 and PO4 via Hanna 0.05



We purchased a relatively inexpensive unit rated for tank up to 220ish gallons, ours is a 125. It does great. It is a Coralife Turbo-Twist. See pic of intake and output tubing, can see it is working well.
@KimG will keep up with your thread as it is so relevant and I’m really pulling for you!! What do you use to siphon? I haven’t had much luck with turkey baster.

EDC1E4FD-E9FC-46D4-A081-CC27A6BA3B8A.jpeg 29FCE777-5A75-4055-921F-B91C7405C06B.jpeg
Hi Doglips.
Thanks.
Yes, i will keep the thread updated. Once this phase is over and things are back on track it may be useful for others.
I just use a pice of pipe connected to a rigid tube (10mm) so its easier to shiphone the rocks. I normally also have a very small amout of tubing (1cm or so) in the end of the rigid pipe to scrape the rocks. Seems to help a bit. I can't remove all of it.

Have you measured nitrate and phosphate?

I suspect all the rock and bacteria may help.
I inclined to think that when all of this is last i will still try to get some live rock to seed the tank.
I miss all the wonderful little creatures i used to have.
 

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Hi Doglips.
Thanks.
Yes, i will keep the thread updated. Once this phase is over and things are back on track it may be useful for others.
I just use a pice of pipe connected to a rigid tube (10mm) so its easier to shiphone the rocks. I normally also have a very small amout of tubing (1cm or so) in the end of the rigid pipe to scrape the rocks. Seems to help a bit. I can't remove all of it.

Have you measured nitrate and phosphate?

I suspect all the rock and bacteria may help.
I inclined to think that when all of this is last i will still try to get some live rock to seed the tank.
I miss all the wonderful little creatures i used to have.
Nitrates today were between 5-10 using Red Sea test kit and PO4 was .05 using Hanna checker and I double checked. Have been in blackout 71 hours now and have had carbon reactor running for about 48 hours. Had a small bag of carbon in a filter cup the whole time but wish I would’ve started the reactor immediately and perhaps my naso wouldn’t have died. Going to start up the skimmer and UV tomorrow morning. I did see your thread about starting over and I do understand because I feel that way too but I keep getting reassured that this too shall pass. I hope so for both of us!! Perhaps instead of tearing everything down you can restore balance by either replacing some of your rock with live rock. I could only swap a few pieces because the rest are glued in caves and arches. Someone also told me you can just add the live rock to the sump and get the same benefits.
 
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