Help me learn from tang qt death

[Lovetoclown]

I am looking for input to learn from this recent death. I am in the process of upgrading my 75g tank to a 300g. I purchased a powder brown tang and a fairy wrasse from live aquaria 3 weeks ago. Both were eating 5 minutes out of the shipping bags. Both fish were in qt together and doing great and eating aggressively. Then a couple days ago I noticed the PB swimming in the return water from the hob filter by day and sleeping at the bottom of the tank by night. Both still eating great. 2 days like this and then I noticed he was missing the food when trying to eat and now he was starting to hide. Saw no visual signs on the fish, but I decided to dose prazipro that night. 7 hours later fish was on its side barely alive. Short time later gone. I'm guessing flukes. Qt tank is just a 20g tank with oversized hob filter, a heater and fan for temp stability and a piece of pvc for hiding. I use display tank water for the qt. would really like input to help me learn. Thank you.

 

[Chris Adams]

I know you said you used DT water. How often were you you doing WC
Did you test your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate levels? how were they looking?

 

[Humblefish]

Then a couple days ago I noticed the PB swimming in the return water from the hob filter by day

See key behavioral symptoms of velvet here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

IME; continuously swimming into flow is most often a symptom of Marine Velvet Disease.

 

[WVReefJunkie]

I think Chris and I are thinking along the same idea. You said you used DT tank water for your quarantine. Did you use seeded filtration from display to quarantine tank? How long has the quarantine been running? If you say the fish has no visual signs of disease on the fish, then I would suggest that the ammonia levels reached a lethal level killing your fish. Maybe buildup of over feeding possibly.

 

[Lovetoclown]

I do weekly water changes or more if the ammonia badge even starts to look like it's changing color. The wrasse that was in the same qt is doing great still. But now I'm going to do the tank transfer with him and dose prazi to be safe. My display is about 4 months old. Test couple times a week. Nitrates 0, ammonia 0.

 

[Highgrade]

See key behavioral symptoms of velvet here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

IME; continuously swimming into flow is most often a symptom of Marine Velvet Disease.

+1

 

[armspar]

First of all, when adding a new fish I cannot stress enough a 8 hr lights off policy. Shipping is VERY stressful for a fish and it can take weeks for them to fully recover from the stress. Water changes in qt are the best and easiest thing to do for a fish to keep it happy and healthy. I would blame stress alone on the fishes demise.

 

[GHsaltie]

See key behavioral symptoms of velvet here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

IME; continuously swimming into flow is most often a symptom of Marine Velvet Disease.

+2
Not that Humble needs any backing :p

 

[Lovetoclown]

I personally don't see stress or ammonia. For 3 weeks he was very active and ate like a champ. After a couple days of swimming in the return filter stream off and on through the daytime he suddenly started missing the food when he tried eating it. Then a few hours later he was barely alive and on his side. But I will be reading that link shortly.

 

[melypr1985]

The behavioral symptoms are very telling. I've only ever seen fish swim into the flow of powerheads continuously when they have velvet. The quick death after the first onset of symptoms is also telling.

 

[Black Pearl]

Had you fresh water dipped post mortem, you would have been able to tell if it was fluckes or not, they would have still fallen off the fish

 

[Breakthecycle2]

How are the fish in the DT? I can almost guarantee you are now dealing with velvet. In my experience, the reason you wrasse seems OK is because fairy/flasher wrasses seem to have some type of short term resistance to it.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

And also, TTM will not get rid of velvet.

 

[Clarksski]

I just wanted to say sorry for your loss... It's always a sad day when we lose a fish friend

 

[Lovetoclown]

Display is fine. But there is no way for the fish in the display to be affected. The fish that dies was in qt. But I am keeping a close eye on the wrasse.

 

[4FordFamily]

Agree entirely, that's definitely velvet you describe. You may not see spots anywhere or other symptoms. The swimming in to powerheads and quick death thereafter is key.

Many wrasse can actually build a resistance to velvet and ich. My wrasse tank actually has had velvet and ich for 1-2 years, but no one succombs because other than a blonde naso who is tough as nails and now immune/resistant, the rest of the fish are wrasse. I lost two wrasse to velvet early on and then everyone pulled through.

With wrasse I suspect that it is the slime cocoons they sleep in that protect them, and for sand burrowing wrasses I suspect the fact that they're hiding under the sand also keeps the parasite from taking over while they build an immunity/resistance.

The only reason my fat blonde naso is so hardy is that she was a Petco fish. She was subjected to velvet and ich for months before I bought her. I knew that a wrasse from a vendor on here brought velvet (that wrasse survived and we later found out that vendor had given velvet to many users here -- that vendor is no longer with us) also. A visual inspection of her at Petco showed that she had steadily improved through months of suffering. She's now very hardy and I've never seen a spot on her since I've had her (again two years)

To the casual reader, please understand that this is NOT normal and NOT ethical. Although some wrasse CAN survive ich and velvet they shouldn't be expected to -- nor is it fair to subject them to this as many will die and few people have the system stability, water parameters, and the "plan b" if things go awry. I still lost two wrasse and had my quarantine not been full of tangs with velvet at the time I would have qt'd everyone.

Once my 55 gal qt is again empty, I plan to qt and treat all of the inhabitants in the 125 wrasse tank with velvet because it's the right thing to do and I can then add new fish to this tank again, which I haven't done since discovering this. Things appear fine but this is not how I wish to run my tank long term.

Anyway, my point is that your wrasse may never show symptoms (especially since your tang apparently didn't show outward symptoms like dusting or spots) but absolutely will infect your tank.

I've cross contaminated both of my other 180 gallon reef tanks with ich AND velvet by simply sticking my hand in my velvet/ich management tank in to one of them (to put nori in, dumping skimmers, sharing nets, drainage hoses for water changes, etc). So a fish host is a steadfast guarantee of adding velvet to your DT. Don't risk it. Treat with copper or CP

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Display is fine. But there is no way for the fish in the display to be affected. The fish that dies was in qt. But I am keeping a close eye on the wrasse.

The thing is, if you the only thing you put in the QT was display water, thats most likely where it came from. LA fish are usually disease free.

 

[melypr1985]

The thing is, if you the only thing you put in the QT was display water, thats most likely where it came from. LA fish are usually disease free.

Actually, it can come from LA just as easily as from your LFS or anywhere else.

 

[Lovetoclown]

I would suspect LA. My other 2 tangs and 5 other fish in the display look and act great. I've had good luck with LA this time around, but at the same time, I gave up on them for a while cause no fish I ordered even made into qt cause of bad packaging and doa.

 

[Lovetoclown]

I started a prazipro cycle, should I continue and do the 2 cycles in case of flukes and then cupramine in case of velvet?