Help me understand stocking a tank more deeply

[Kirschy17]

Hello,

Im Michael from Austria and i have been keeping a mixed reef for 8 years. My tank is a red sea max 250 Aio tank which is a 250l volume so at around 230l water volume around 60-65g

I have had a lot of different fish and learned a lot about stocking and keeping different species. I have however lost most fish after some time. Currently theres only 2 fish in the tank - my 8 year old platinum percula clown which survived a brooklynella outbreak and outlived all other tankmates. Second fish is a king solomon basslet i have for 1-2 years now.

in my early stages i lost a lot of fish when adding to the tank - currently with my quarantine process i feel confident that i can prepare fish well for their new habitat in training them to food and making them comfortable and healthy before moving to my display.

since i do quarantine i often lose fish after 1-2 years around when they get settled in completely, maybe because terretorial agression starts to develop or because of poor nutrition? I also had issues with blennies dying with intestinal problems after some time.

help me understand fish care and stocking of a rank of my size.

An ideal stock list for me would be a second clown, a dragonet, a blenny and 1-2 wrasse (fairy/flasher)

Besides establishing and maintaining a pod population for the mandarin are there concerns regarding agression and overstocking?

Im not talking about if i can keep the fish initially which im sure i can - but i want the fish to get old in my tank. How can i ensure that.

If possible im also looking to get a dwarf moray which would alter my tank plans but that is probably hard to come by anyway.

Id be glad for any pointers or advice.

I have kept fish for longer periods of time but i hate losing them when they are settled in and supposed to be healthy.

Thank you!

 

[The Ugly Phase]

what fish are you losing 1-2 years seems short are you buying fish fully grown with shortish life spans?
what are you feeding them?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I do regular water changes and maintain my equipment regularly.
I feed my fish very well, 3-4 times per day.
I don't overstock.
I select my fish extremely carefully to ensure compatibility, no bullying allowed.
I ensure the water is well oxygenated.
Each fish I buy is carefully researched in advanced.
I have a lot of rocks and lots of hiding spaces for fish.

My fish only die of old age.

IMO possible reasons for you to lose fish after 2 years:
Bullying
Disease
Overstocking
Poor water quality
Insufficient feeding
Insufficient oxygen
High stress level from lack of hiding spaces and territory.

Can you share a picture of your tank?

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Choosing species that are known for longevity is a good practice. Flashers and some of the fairies aren't reliably long-term captives, for example.

Part of this longevity is certainly dependent on the level of care required. Any fish will be susceptible to aggression or serious water quality issues (which I don't assume you'll allow, of course), but choosing fish that tolerate some degree of each will allow them to live through the inevitable stresses and fluctuations in captive conditions.

I've found the more hardy Centropyge species to be survivors, for example, and a 60g tank wouldn't be completely unsuitable for one -- that would be the showpiece fish in my 60g if I were to set one up. But if you're set on a wrasse, perhaps one of the more common and durable Halichoeres species would be a good choice.

 

[Kirschy17]

I do regular water changes and maintain my equipment regularly.
I feed my fish very well, 3-4 times per day.
I don't overstock.
I select my fish extremely carefully to ensure compatibility, no bullying allowed.
I ensure the water is well oxygenated.
Each fish I buy is carefully researched in advanced.
I have a lot of rocks and lots of hiding spaces for fish.

My fish only die of old age.

IMO possible reasons for you to lose fish after 2 years:
Bullying
Disease
Overstocking
Poor water quality
Insufficient feeding
Insufficient oxygen
High stress level from lack of hiding spaces and territory.

Can you share a picture of your tank?

Thank you for the reply! Here is a picture of my tank rn. I have had phases of neglect but i have kept lps, sps and softies during the whole time.

I dont do regular water changes as i dont see the necesity. I monitor nutrients and bioload and do whaterchanges when needed. What besides high nutrient levels is a reason to do water changes? With low bioload i do waterchanges if sonething in the tanks balance is off or i want to replenish cal/kh.

I quarantine all fish for 2 months usually with inspection only. As i am in europe it is hard to get the recommended medication from the forum. All i can get here is very low dosage and expensive to order. I montor behaviour and get fish feeding in qt then i transfer to main tank.

I am more or less confident i could tell a obviously sick fish from a healthy one (after 2 months in qt)

My understanding is most diseases would break out by that time.

I do have theoretical understanding of fish aggression and bullying. I have removed fish from my system that were bullies/bullied. Here i have seen different kinds of bullying. If one fish chases another and is clear. But i have lost fish where i felt like one fish got more confident over time while another got more and more shy.

This i understand less because i thought fish agression is mostly settled when introduced.

I do feed frozen food once per day. Mysis/artemia and some substitutes if i have them. With algae eaters i fed nori/spirulina flakes as well.

Feeding more than once a day is required for some species of wrasse correct?

I have high enough flow for sps corals - do you think oxygen can be an issue?
My tank was out of balance allalinity wise. Low kh high cal for sone time. I also have had some form of cyano algae and also dinos once.

I doubt overstocking has been an issue because i never really had issues with high nutrients.

Fish i have had in parallel:

Clown
Mandarin
Longnose hawk
Matted filefish
Yellow coris wrasse

Midas blenny
Orchid dottyback
Clown
Mandarin

At differate times

Lunate fairy wrasse
Yellowfin flasher wrasse
Purple firefish

I also had a golden dwarf moray for 2 years that also stopped eating and died.
Here i had suspected an ungealthy died because of all the mussel and fishy meats i offered she only took to frozen stint which apparently can be bad for morays.

The coral and scape of the tank has changed slightly but theres about 30kg of liferock in the tank with tunnels, holes and many hides in and around the corals.
I dont think theres a lack of hides.


I would love fish suggestion, critique and feeding advice.

 

[The Ugly Phase]

once a day is not alot at all i feed 4-5 times a day in a brand new tank i would upp the feeding to atleast 3 times a day

gotta keep my regal fat

 

[Kirschy17]

Choosing species that are known for longevity is a good practice. Flashers and some of the fairies aren't reliably long-term captives, for example.

Part of this longevity is certainly dependent on the level of care required. Any fish will be susceptible to aggression or serious water quality issues (which I don't assume you'll allow, of course), but choosing fish that tolerate some degree of each will allow them to live through the inevitable stresses and fluctuations in captive conditions.

I've found the more hardy Centropyge species to be survivors, for example, and a 60g tank wouldn't be completely unsuitable for one -- that would be the showpiece fish in my 60g if I were to set one up. But if you're set on a wrasse, perhaps one of the more common and durable Halichoeres species would be a good choice.

I would love a dwarf angel - i had a pair of yellowfin angels (contropyge flavicauda) when i first got into the hobby. I list them due to a brooklynella outbreak which was before i started quarantining.

Later i read they can be aggressive and the larger coral beauty and flame angels i always felt were too large for my tank.

I have been eying a flameback or cherubfish one of the pygmy angels for some time.

 

[Kirschy17]

once a day is not alot at all i feed 4-5 times a day in a brand new tank i would upp the feeding to atleast 3 times a day

How do you do that practically speaking? I do prepare homemade mixtures of moxed frozen food. Do you let them thaw once per day and drop sone food in the tank every time you pass it? I usually let it thaw in a bowl with rodi water and sieve it off before putting it in. I also have my pumps off when i feed for 20-30 minutes so corals and inverts can feed on it too.

 

[Kirschy17]

what fish are you losing 1-2 years seems short are you buying fish fully grown with shortish life spans?
what are you feeding them?

Most recently i lost a midas blenny. Before that a mandarin that i have had for 5 years+

Before that i lost a lubocks wrasse. And a black combtooth blenny.

Yellowfin flasher wrasse

The more i think about it its mostly blennies and wrasse that have been an issue but have not kept a lot of other types of fish

Actually i have been buying less fish recently because i did not want to lose more.

 

[The Ugly Phase]

How do you do that practically speaking? I do prepare homemade mixtures of moxed frozen food. Do you let them thaw once per day and drop sone food in the tank every time you pass it? I usually let it thaw in a bowl with rodi water and sieve it off before putting it in. I also have my pumps off when i feed for 20-30 minutes so corals and inverts can feed on it too.

i feed chunky monkey mysis in the morning about 11 i feed brine with sprillia (or however you spell it) ill feed algae pellets for the tang cause it wont go near the nori clip i feed angel formula for sponge for the angel then ill target feed the regal angel with the blue ocean nutrition big pellets i drop 1 in at a time and continue dropping 1 in at a time untill he stops eating them

i have a cup feeder in my custom lid i just drop the food in there and it goes into the tank

 

[The Ugly Phase]

and i always have nori on a clip for the tang just incase it ever decides to try it out

 

[The Ugly Phase]

i do a 2 or 3 gallon water change every day with a auto water changer on a 94 gallon tank sometimes i miss a day with the water change when i need to fill the water back up and mix it very simple system just 2* 30litre buckets 1 has fresh salt water in 1 is for the waste water change them when needed every 3 days

 

[Kirschy17]

i feed chunky monkey mysis in the morning about 11 i feed brine with sprillia (or however you spell it) ill feed algae pellets for the tang cause it wont go near the nori clip i feed angel formula for sponge for the angel then ill target feed the regal angel with the blue ocean nutrition big pellets i drop 1 in at a time and continue dropping 1 in at a time untill he stops eating them

i have a cup feeder in my custom lid i just drop the food in there and it goes into the tank

Okay so you feed mostly pellets.

I have not yet used a pellet food for my fish.

The several algae foods you feed are not consumed by something like a clownfish right? So the clownfish will eat the bri e shrimp once per day or am i wrong? I only have 2 fish currently. Orchid dottyback and clown. Do you have a suggestion for a feeding schedule?

 

[The Ugly Phase]

i feed meaty foods 3 times a day pellets twice a day

the clownfish would eat the brine the mysis and the angel formula my fish eat everything i put in the tank the midas blenny even eats the algae pellets

 

[The Ugly Phase]

i have tried to feed my fish cockles and muscles but they did not seem to go for it so i stopped

 

[MikeReefs]

All my fish are fat and happy. I do not feed frozen. Omega One is the only brand I use, I switch it up Pellets, Flakes, Brine, Mysis. My goby gets fed crushed Hakari wafers daily, tang/foxface get nori daily. Every couple of days I soak the food in Selcon and I only feed one a day. All my fish are quarantined, put in an acclimation box and closely monitored weeks after adding to main tank. All fish have territory and tank mates they share territory with, they won’t all share well so have a good amount of rocks. Do research on your stocking, best advice I can give.

 

[Malum Argenteum]

I would love a dwarf angel - i had a pair of yellowfin angels (contropyge flavicauda) when i first got into the hobby. I list them due to a brooklynella outbreak which was before i started quarantining.

Later i read they can be aggressive and the larger coral beauty and flame angels i always felt were too large for my tank.

I have been eying a flameback or cherubfish one of the pygmy angels for some time.

I've never kept a flame angel, as they're not apparently one of the hardiest species. That was my impression from when I worked at a shop; hardiness of fish can change over years depending on where they're collected and such. They're probably also more of an impulse purchase fish (compared to other Centropyge) and that will skew the overall data on survival downward.

I did keep a pygmy cherub (C. argi) -- they're not for a peaceful tank, but they are hardy. I kept a coral beauty (C. bispinosa) for some years before losing it in an extended power outage. I currently have a rusty (C. ferrugata) for about 4 years that's been really nice. This is all in a 90g, though, so you're right to have some concern about the tank size.

I feed a mix of flake, and assorted prepacked frozen to which I usually add Selcon. I've not done much experimenting with food over the 30 years I've been doing this, but my impression is that variety seems to get a good response from the fish, and that probably feeding a few times a day is better than less frequently.

 

[littlefoxx]

Thank you for the reply! Here is a picture of my tank rn. I have had phases of neglect but i have kept lps, sps and softies during the whole time.

I dont do regular water changes as i dont see the necesity. I monitor nutrients and bioload and do whaterchanges when needed. What besides high nutrient levels is a reason to do water changes? With low bioload i do waterchanges if sonething in the tanks balance is off or i want to replenish cal/kh.

I quarantine all fish for 2 months usually with inspection only. As i am in europe it is hard to get the recommended medication from the forum. All i can get here is very low dosage and expensive to order. I montor behaviour and get fish feeding in qt then i transfer to main tank.

I am more or less confident i could tell a obviously sick fish from a healthy one (after 2 months in qt)

My understanding is most diseases would break out by that time.

I do have theoretical understanding of fish aggression and bullying. I have removed fish from my system that were bullies/bullied. Here i have seen different kinds of bullying. If one fish chases another and is clear. But i have lost fish where i felt like one fish got more confident over time while another got more and more shy.

This i understand less because i thought fish agression is mostly settled when introduced.

I do feed frozen food once per day. Mysis/artemia and some substitutes if i have them. With algae eaters i fed nori/spirulina flakes as well.

Feeding more than once a day is required for some species of wrasse correct?

I have high enough flow for sps corals - do you think oxygen can be an issue?
My tank was out of balance allalinity wise. Low kh high cal for sone time. I also have had some form of cyano algae and also dinos once.

I doubt overstocking has been an issue because i never really had issues with high nutrients.

Fish i have had in parallel:

Clown
Mandarin
Longnose hawk
Matted filefish
Yellow coris wrasse

Midas blenny
Orchid dottyback
Clown
Mandarin

At differate times

Lunate fairy wrasse
Yellowfin flasher wrasse
Purple firefish

I also had a golden dwarf moray for 2 years that also stopped eating and died.
Here i had suspected an ungealthy died because of all the mussel and fishy meats i offered she only took to frozen stint which apparently can be bad for morays.

The coral and scape of the tank has changed slightly but theres about 30kg of liferock in the tank with tunnels, holes and many hides in and around the corals.
I dont think theres a lack of hides.


I would love fish suggestion, critique and feeding advice.

What all were you feeding your moray?? I have 4 morays going on 3 years now, I can help with moray care if you want to try again

 

[Kirschy17]

What all were you feeding your moray?? I have 4 morays going on 3 years now, I can help with moray care if you want to try again

I do want to try again but i run a mixed reef in a 60g tank so i am limited to a golden dwarf or other small moray which i have not been able to get so far.

This has been like 5 years ago but i started in quarantine to get it eating - failed. In quarantine tank the moray did not eat. I think this was when i was still preventively treating general cure.

So i moved to the main tank because i was afraid it did not line the medication and it was a 300$ fish. In the main tank i started offering frozen krill and frozen stint which was readily available to me from my lfs. The frozen stint worked very well. The moray took it pretty mich from the getgo. I fed like once a week. I frequently tried different stuff i could get. Frozen mussels, salmon filet and other fish from my supermarket. I even got fresh fish from the market.
I dont recall if she took to the different food but mostly it was only the small frozen fish. Then rather suddenly it stopped eating which i was told happens from time to time. Weeks passed, months passed. After 2-3 months i stopped seing her and found her dead later.

In that time i tried offering food daily i Think and there were even tankmates that she could have cought which i would have prefered over losing her.

I would love advice on moray keeping as its my favorite fish.

 

[The Ugly Phase]

I do want to try again but i run a mixed reef in a 60g tank so i am limited to a golden dwarf or other small moray which i have not been able to get so far.

This has been like 5 years ago but i started in quarantine to get it eating - failed. In quarantine tank the moray did not eat. I think this was when i was still preventively treating general cure.

So i moved to the main tank because i was afraid it did not line the medication and it was a 300$ fish. In the main tank i started offering frozen krill and frozen stint which was readily available to me from my lfs. The frozen stint worked very well. The moray took it pretty mich from the getgo. I fed like once a week. I frequently tried different stuff i could get. Frozen mussels, salmon filet and other fish from my supermarket. I even got fresh fish from the market.
I dont recall if she took to the different food but mostly it was only the small frozen fish. Then rather suddenly it stopped eating which i was told happens from time to time. Weeks passed, months passed. After 2-3 months i stopped seing her and found her dead later.

In that time i tried offering food daily i Think and there were even tankmates that she could have cought which i would have prefered over losing her.

I would love advice on moray keeping as its my favorite fish.

golden dwarfs are impossible to get atm with Hawaii closed unfortunately :(