Help Needed: Bowerbanki Struggling During Ugly Phase

[Spitfire]

Hi All,

I've been in the ugly stage of my display tank for about 2.5 months now. I've got a pretty serious case of hair algae on the rocks and some Cyanobacteria. I've been doing manual maintenance to control it, but it's been tough.


I should admit I'm a bit of a rookie at this. I kept a marine tank years ago with just a couple of clowns, but I "inherited" this tank. It's already mature, but it went through a hard reset when it was moved to my place. It came with corals, and the previous owner was very attached to his Bleeding Apple Bowerbanki (14 heads). I promised to take good care of it, and if he got back into the hobby, he’d want to frag it.


However, about four days ago, it started to recede. The flesh looks pointy, and this morning I noticed that the bone has actually pierced through the flesh on some of the lower heads. Most of my parameters have been stable, but phosphate has been tricky to control—it’s crept up from 0.049 to 0.077, and I’m considering using PhosGuard (or any other suggestions?).


I’ve also had a serious outbreak of Blue Clove Polyps, which have grown right up against the Bowerbanki. I suspect they’re irritating it. I’m planning to treat the blue cloves with Panacure once I get my QT tank sorted for the snails and sea cucumber.


My main question is: based on the signs I’m seeing, how likely is recovery for the Bleeding Apple? Are there any steps I can take to help it bounce back?


I've also just ordered some A- and K+ trace elements, as the previous owner recommended dosing them again (not sure why he stopped).


Current Parameters:

• Alk: 7.3 (fluctuates between 7.3 and 7.5)
• Calcium: 450
• Magnesium: 1320
• Phosphate: 0.077 (up from 0.049 since mid Feb)
• Nitrate: 5
• Salinity: 1.024

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Llyod276]

Ooooh i got a recommendation for a new type of reef meds today!!! Lemme find it... there!!!

Yeah a hard reset is just that hard! I'm not surprised you're having problems.
For phophates, what about a gfo reactor?? Kinda pricey, but the best thing is it doesn't have to be run all the time.
Did you ever get a base from dudes tank and try to emulate his params water etc???
Stability is best but yeah sounds like the tank is cycling, so just keep up with it. A solid clean up crew will help you keep the algea in check, but remember if you have plenty of fertilizer (nitrates+ phosphates) and nothing is using it, well you gotta get rid of it some how...
Idk all the deets, but a solid CUC, sump with macro, frequent waterchanges, and gfo will help. Time is real factor. Hope your corals survive looks gorgeous!

 

[Spitfire]

Ooooh i got a recommendation for a new type of reef meds today!!! Lemme find it... there!!!

Yeah a hard reset is just that hard! I'm not surprised you're having problems.
For phophates, what about a gfo reactor?? Kinda pricey, but the best thing is it doesn't have to be run all the time.
Did you ever get a base from dudes tank and try to emulate his params water etc???
Stability is best but yeah sounds like the tank is cycling, so just keep up with it. A solid clean up crew will help you keep the algea in check, but remember if you have plenty of fertilizer (nitrates+ phosphates) and nothing is using it, well you gotta get rid of it some how...
Idk all the deets, but a solid CUC, sump with macro, frequent waterchanges, and gfo will help. Time is real factor. Hope your corals survive looks gorgeous!

Thanks for your reply, Lyod!


The previous owner did leave me with a reactor, so I’ll look at reinstalling it for phosphate control.


My setup is a 300L tank with a sump underneath divided into three chambers. I also have a mini refugium running alongside it, but since I’m still learning, I’m not sure if it’s in good condition. It has ceramic bio rings at the bottom and some macroalgae, but the top layer looks really slimy and covered in algae. I asked the previous owner if that’s normal, and he said it’s fine—but I’m not so sure.


As for the sump, it has a pretty decent skimmer that runs hard and usually fills the cup just below halfway every two weeks (I clean it fortnightly). The skimmer is also connected to a CO2 scrubber.


I have an ATO for RO water, which has been working well.


Regarding water changes, this is where it gets a bit weird. The previous owner advised me not to do water changes because he’s concerned it will throw off the balance of the parameters. It feels counterintuitive, but I’ve followed that advice and haven’t done a water change since the first week of having the tank.

 

[56longroof]

Your alk and salinity are a little low for my liking. My salinity is 1.0255 and alk is 9.3-9.6.Phosphate levels are fine. Mine usually run .08-.1 with no issues. What's your light schedule and intensity? Does it match what it was in the previous tank? Have you tested for amonia or nitrite? Ph levels? There are alot of variables to consider.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

wow thats a severe blue clove polyp problem...... it requires a complete rip clean. I would not proceed anymore with this tank to be honest, IMO its a lost cause, I would solve the clove polyp problem before doing anything.

'Not doing water changes' is a more advanced technique, it requires your careful attention to all parameters and dosing to correct the parameters. A rookie should not take this approach unless they know what they are doing and testing frequently and dosing to correct the parameters, parameters won't just stay the same from doing nothing.

Did you rinse the sand after breaking it down and setting it up again?

 

[Llyod276]

1. Yeah, if it's low flow, you're gonna have a bio film on top of the water, i got it as well, i just make sure that when i harvest the macro, i stir the algea as well. I'd advise shutting the skimmer and pumps off until after it settles again, or you're gonna have more maintenance sooner...
2. Gfo is not hard to run, nor does it need to be all the time, just enough to get the levels down, then monitor and turn on and off as needed...
3. I would advise against not doing water changes until later once the tank matures and you understand what can be replenished with out waterchanges. Even instant ocean is 100$these days!!!
4. Salinity at 1.0255??? Usually that's my upperlimit, but then again everyone has their prefrences.
5. I never kept up with params cause i had no time, or intrest or whatever excuse i could come up with. Now, i have to tell myself wait.
6. Theres this guy @VintageReefer. He doesnt do anything but scrape the glass and feed, but im not him. I do the maintenance because ive went down that route before and let me tell ya the gsps and kenya trees ruled my tank, all else perished before their combined might... talk to him for his routine...

 

[56longroof]

4. Salinity at 1.0255??? Usually that's my upperlimit, but then again everyone has their prefrences.

What do you keep your tank at? I like to keep mine as close to NSW as possible.

 

[Spitfire]

wow thats a severe blue clove polyp problem...... it requires a complete rip clean. I would not proceed anymore with this tank to be honest, IMO its a lost cause, I would solve the clove polyp problem before doing anything.

'Not doing water changes' is a more advanced technique, it requires your careful attention to all parameters and dosing to correct the parameters. A rookie should not take this approach unless they know what they are doing and testing frequently and dosing to correct the parameters, parameters won't just stay the same from doing nothing.

Did you rinse the sand after breaking it down and setting it up again?

Very fair response, it’s stressful enough as it is fighting it!


When you say not to proceed anymore with the tank, what exactly do you mean? Are you suggesting a complete restart? I'm actively taking steps to get rid of the Blue Clove Polyps, so I’d like to understand the options before making any big decisions. I am taking a dive by adding panacur (dog dewormer) to try and melt away all the Blue Clove Polyps.

The previous owner is still in regular contact with me and has been very helpful in providing guidance. Under his care, the tank was thriving without water changes, and he managed it by keeping the parameters stable through automated dosing. I do have a doser that keeps on top of alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium, (Soon A- and K+) and I test weekly and adjust as needed.


As for the sand, I replaced the old sand with a bag of new live wet sand (Pink Fiji). I rinsed it thoroughly with RO water before adding it to the tank.

 

[Spitfire]

1. Yeah, if it's low flow, you're gonna have a bio film on top of the water, i got it as well, i just make sure that when i harvest the macro, i stir the algea as well. I'd advise shutting the skimmer and pumps off until after it settles again, or you're gonna have more maintenance sooner...
2. Gfo is not hard to run, nor does it need to be all the time, just enough to get the levels down, then monitor and turn on and off as needed...
3. I would advise against not doing water changes until later once the tank matures and you understand what can be replenished with out waterchanges. Even instant ocean is 100$these days!!!
4. Salinity at 1.0255??? Usually that's my upperlimit, but then again everyone has their prefrences.
5. I never kept up with params cause i had no time, or intrest or whatever excuse i could come up with. Now, i have to tell myself wait.
6. Theres this guy @VintageReefer. He doesnt do anything but scrape the glass and feed, but im not him. I do the maintenance because ive went down that route before and let me tell ya the gsps and kenya trees ruled my tank, all else perished before their combined might... talk to him for his routine...

Thanks Llyod! I'll take all of this onboard!

 

[Llyod276]

I aim for .023-.024 so if some water evaporates it only gets to .025, by then there noise which alerts me that my water is low and needs a refill. But i finally hooked up an ato, so it stays at .023-.024 via refractometer consistently.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Very fair response, it’s stressful enough as it is fighting it!


When you say not to proceed anymore with the tank, what exactly do you mean? Are you suggesting a complete restart? I'm actively taking steps to get rid of the Blue Clove Polyps, so I’d like to understand the options before making any big decisions. I am taking a dive by adding panacur (dog dewormer) to try and melt away all the Blue Clove Polyps.

The previous owner is still in regular contact with me and has been very helpful in providing guidance. Under his care, the tank was thriving without water changes, and he managed it by keeping the parameters stable through automated dosing. I do have a doser that keeps on top of alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium, (Soon A- and K+) and I test weekly and adjust as needed.


As for the sand, I replaced the old sand with a bag of new live wet sand (Pink Fiji). I rinsed it thoroughly with RO water before adding it to the tank.

ok sounds like your on top of things, good on you!

I've had experience with blue clove polyps, I cycled new rocks in a separate container, then one day I fragged the good corals onto the new rocks and removed every clove polyp rock. Its definitely a lot more work than the chemical route, but I'm not putting dog dewormer into my reef tank or any other chemical. Thats a personal choice I guess. But yes, the cloves need to be dealt with somehow before you can progress your tank any further. Good luck

 

[Llyod276]

Unless you want them. Corals are your choice. But the overtaking trend will continue. I did manange to melt my xenias, but gsp and kenya trees somehow not only survived but thrived, absolutely dominated. I had the same thing but with gsp. In the end i have no gsp, and will prolly never again have it...

 

[Spitfire]

Your alk and salinity are a little low for my liking. My salinity is 1.0255 and alk is 9.3-9.6.Phosphate levels are fine. Mine usually run .08-.1 with no issues. What's your light schedule and intensity? Does it match what it was in the previous tank? Have you tested for amonia or nitrite? Ph levels? There are alot of variables to consider.

Blue lights (AI Hydra 52HD) fade on at 8AM then from 11AM the T5's (x ATI Blue Plus 39W, 2x ATI Actinic 39W and 2x ATI Coral Plus T5 39W) Turn on then the T5's switch off at 7PM and Blue fade out at 11PM and Refugium light switches on at 7PM and then off at 8AM.

 

[Spitfire]

ok sounds like your on top of things, good on you!

I've had experience with blue clove polyps, I cycled new rocks in a separate container, then one day I fragged the good corals onto the new rocks and removed every clove polyp rock. Its definitely a lot more work than the chemical route, but I'm not putting dog dewormer into my reef tank or any other chemical. Thats a personal choice I guess. But yes, the cloves need to be dealt with somehow before you can progress your tank any further. Good luck

I’ll admit, I’m not entirely comfortable with using Panacur either. The rock formation in my tank is all fused together to form a bridge, so removing it would mean taking everything out at once otherwise, I would have already gone down that route.

Most of the Euphyllia, Favias, Bowerbankis, Micromussas and Gonioporacorals can be removed and placed in a QT without much trouble, but some encrusting corals will need to stay put. That said, the previous owner successfully used the dog dewormer method before and assured me it went fine. I trust his experience, so I’m planning to start the process very gradually, taking baby steps until I see signs of the polyps starting to melt.

 

[BryanM]

There are other trace elements beyond alk, calc, mag, that you need, I hope whatever you're dosing is dealing with more than just these three.

Good luck with the blue clove polyps.