Help on Yellow Tang and Emperor

[rebels23]

Hi Folks,

Quarantining some fish here and need a little help figuring out what is going on. I am treating the water with API Cure for now. Not sure what to do with yellow tang and what looks like fin rot? Also the emperor seems to have these red sores on him.........but when I look closer, is he morphing? Do they morph when they are so tiny (~ 2")? Thanks in advance

 

[Jay Hemdal]

API General Cure, right? That shouldn't cause this issue.

What I see is that the yellow tang is pretty skinny, and is showing scalloped fins and epithelial thinning seen is this species when they develop head and lateral line erosion (HLLE). The emperor angel is showing deep pit erosion, a symptom they show with HLLE.

How long have you had them? This is pretty severe HLLE to have come on quickly. As you may know, carbon use will cause acute HLLE like this, but they may have been exposed prior to you getting them, as I typically do not see this much development until about 30 days after first exposure.

Jay

 

[rebels23]

Yes it is API General Cure. I am using it as I am not sure if the yellow tang has intestinal issues as he is not gaining weight. The Emperor also recently developed stringy, clear, slimy poop (which the yellow tang will eat......yuck).

The yellow tang has been through quite alot. He had a bout with ich, didn't take to Cupramine well and I thought he was a goner. At one point swimming nose down, tail up, and even upside down. I've nursed him back from that point on (almost 4 weeks ago). He has gone through the tank transfer method and H2O2 to rid him of ich. He eats, but no matter how much he eats he just doesn't gain weight.

The emperor I have only had for two weeks. He also went through TTM and H2O2. He is a beast and eats like a pig, pellets and Nori. Only after I put in the API General Cure the next day did I notice the red spots and blotches. I also have Seachem Matrix Bio Media in the filter.

If it is HLLE, is ti reversible? Is HLLE contagious (yellow had it way before emperor)?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

HLLE isn't contagious in the classic sense, but if conditions are right for it, sensitive fish in the same tank can develop it. Reversing it is difficult. The vast majority of successful reversals involved moving the fish to a new tank. Check out my HLLE article I posted last month in the article section here.
Also - it is common for fish to have more than one problem at a time. HLLE isn't fatal, and you mentioned the red spots on the angel - I didn't see those in the picture (not red anyway) but you may have a secondary issue going on as well.

Jay

 

[rebels23]

I am hoping in a week or two I can move the fish to the main display. given the emperor is so small, when he gets bigger will the HLLE be less noticeable if he recovers? When I was referring to the red patches, I was referring to the blotchy areas, the same areas you are referring to. I may also be color blind.

 

[rebels23]

Well I just checked on the tank and it dropped to 70 degrees. The heater looks like it went bad. I took it out and put it in a sink of water to test it and got shocked. Took out my voltmeter and confirmed there was stray voltage from the heater (112 V on the test). Looks like the stray voltage was causing HHLE? Hopefully they make a full recovery with the removal of the heater.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

No - stray voltage doesn’t cause HLLE, but it is a huge safety issue for you! Is the tank plugged into a gfci circuit?

Jay

 

[Coralsdaily]

Agree with Jay on everything, HLLE on both fish and that it isn't normally fatal, just looks bad. make sure you have a varied diet instead of just feeding one kind of food (like nothing but mysis/brime shrimp).
Yellow tang's tail almost looks like someone took a chump out of it?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I see what may also be a huge vitamin deficiency and possible dietary issue.
Not sure what you are feeding but universally for both of these specimens, feed at minimum:

Nori seaweed basted with garlic extract
Formula 2 flake and frozen
mysis shrimp
small plankton
LRS Herbivore diet
Spirulina brine shrimp


Add garlic extract to foods 2-3X per week and on alternating days. selcon vitamins. Water quality plays an importance along with diet and If running carbon, pull it out for a few days and monitor any improvement with both fish without and then with carbon

 

[Coralsdaily]

Like Vetteguy said, varied diet is always the key to success with most of the fish we come across. And having them vitamin enriched is also a nice plus, especially when they are young and just trying to establish their captive lives.

 

[rebels23]

Thanks folks. I will try and vary the diet a bit more. The Emperor eats everything (pellets, flakes, mysis, Nori, etc), that's why it is a bit puzzling for him. The yellow is very finicky. Will only eat Nori. He won't touch the nori once it is dipped in Selcon

Definitely no one chomping on his fins. The emperor's back fin is starting to break apart too.

Jay, the tank is not plugged into a GFCI outlet, just an outlet strip?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

A gfci would just be safer from a human perspective.

The scalloped fins on the YT is how they show HLLE.

Now, while we know that stray voltage doesn’t cause HLLE, that is on the order of a few volts up to around 50. Due to the heater malfunction, you measured higher than that, much higher, right? That isn’t “stray” that is more of a short. I had that happen in a tank years ago, and there was actual current flow. The water went through electrolysis and formed hydrogen and sulfates. Did you see any bubbles or grayish haze in the water?
Jay

 

[rebels23]

I will actually be changing out all outlets that are around the tank to GFCI outlets.

I agree that it is probably better referred to as a short. The heater stopped heating, light was green no matter what setting on the heater. When I had heater in sink with the voltmeter it jumped up to 112, which is very high (and dangerous). I did not see any grayish haze in the water

 

[rebels23]

Well......not sure if they look any better? Did a very big water change (50%).....they are still eating well.....

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I realize it’s subjective, but the emperor looks a bit worse to me. While induced/stray voltage doesn’t cause HLLE, perhaps active shorts will? I only studied stray voltage in the range of 5 to around 40 volts.
Refresh my memory, these fish were not exposed to carbon, correct?
Jay

 

[rebels23]

I'd have to agree with you Jay, I was being hopeful but the Emperor looks worse to me.

The heater was shorting so it was a bit more than stray voltage, but I removed the heater days ago. The yellow tang doesn't look great, although I do see some growth coming back on the fins?

The only carbon they were exposed to was the carbon that comes sealed inside the Penguin filter pads. Do you think the Seachem Matrix could be suspect?

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

I'd have to agree with you Jay, I was being hopeful but the Emperor looks worse to me.

The heater was shorting so it was a bit more than stray voltage, but I removed the heater days ago. The yellow tang doesn't look great, although I do see some growth coming back on the fins?

The only carbon they were exposed to was the carbon that comes sealed inside the Penguin filter pads. Do you think the Seachem Matrix could be suspect?

How are your emperor and YT doing?

 

[rebels23]

How are your emperor and YT doing?

They have thrived in my display tank. The yellow is better but still has some HLLE. The emperor unfortunately will be scarred for life due to the deep pitting

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

Ah that’s too bad about the emperor. I’m in a similar situation and was hoping for a complete recovery.

 

[rebels23]

Ah that’s too bad about the emperor. I’m in a similar situation and was hoping for a complete recovery.

They can recover if it isn't too bad with good diet but takes time.