Help purchasing a microscope

[bh750]

I have been working with microscopes professionally since the late 70s. It is not physically possible to reach more than 1,000 X magnification with a visible light microscope. I don't know where they got 2,500 X? 1,000 X is really only good for examining stained slides of bacteria and a few other uses.

Broadly speaking, there are two main types to consider. I have both at home.
1. A compound scope. - A maximum power of 250-400 X or so would be fine. You'll also need slides and coverslips and possibly fixatives and stains depending on what you want to look at. This may be a bit much for what you want deal with.
2. A dissecting stereoscope. - 7X - 40X is the most common. Easier to use than the compound. you can put a whole piece of coral or a fish under it and take a look.

Take a look at this to help you get a better idea of you are after: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-12/feature/index.php

You need to decide what types of specimens you want to examine before deciding on scope type.

Just reply after reviewing and I can give you more feedback.

Thanks Bob! SPecifically I want to be able to look at things like cyano, algae, dinos, spirulina in my tank. I've been fighting one outbreak or another for years and I've finally decided I need to know exactly what it is before I try to fight it and keep it in control. For example, right now I have this red stuff on my sand. Looks like Cyano. But could be Spirulina. And I'm learning there's different approaches for both. I occasionally get Dinos. Would love to know which type I have. That's my main goal. Aside from that I think in general it would be so cool to get a closer look and learn more about these ecosystems, things like what kind of microfauna is in my tank.

I actually just purchased this scope and am hoping when it arrives it will help me achieve my goals! I'd be curious as to what you think based on all of your experience.

Thanks!
Bryan

 

[BCSreef]

Based on what you are looking for, the dissecting scope is not a good option. Which scope did you order?

Bob

 

[bh750]

Based on what you are looking for, the dissecting scope is not a good option. Which scope did you order?

Bob

Hi bob

I purchased this one:

http://www.amscope.com/compound-mic...biological-compound-microscope-40x-2500x.html

 

[BCSreef]

Hi bob

I purchased this one:

http://www.amscope.com/compound-mic...biological-compound-microscope-40x-2500x.html

That will work for what you plan to examine. Plus you have the photo/video option. You will need to order slides (including some concave slides) and cover slips. PM me if you need help getting it st up.

Bob

 

[bh750]

That will work for what you plan to examine. Plus you have the photo/video option. You will need to order slides (including some concave slides) and cover slips. PM me if you need help getting it st up.

Bob

Thanks I will DEFINITELY take you up on that as I'm starting brand new here. Aside from looking at some cool things through my 8 year old son's $50 scope I havent looked through a scope in 25 years!! I ordered some slides with cover slips today (good call). Scope should arrive early to mid next week.

 

[BCSreef]

Thanks I will DEFINITELY take you up on that as I'm starting brand new here. Aside from looking at some cool things through my 8 year old son's $50 scope I havent looked through a scope in 25 years!! I ordered some slides with cover slips today (good call). Scope should arrive early to mid next week.

I got my first microscope at about age 6! I was totally amazed. It steered me into my current career.

 

[ARCreef]

Hey all, we run a full service lab so thought we could chime in to help out a little on this topic. I saw that Bob already stated lots of really great info so hopefully we can add something to the talk also.

For what you are looking to accomplish there are 2 totally different types of microscopes. A regular "compound microscope" (the ones that your links are of) basically for looking into or through something, and then a stereo microscope, for looking at or onto something that is opaque, used for dissections and looking at things like circuit boards. While I'm sure you're looking for a compound microscope, it's good to know the differences and know that to look at different things you may need different types of microscopes. (Future reef2reefs may one day be talking about which electron microscope to buy on amazon for $300, how cool huh!)

LED or halogen, LED is usually a few bucks more and slightly less bright than halogens, (low-mid grade scopes) LED also offers the user the distinct advantage of not changing the temperature of the slide. Halogens can cause the slide to heat and then things to move all around or even the slide to dry eventually. The older LED's were all 1 watt, which is perfect at 40x mag but a tad bit dark at high magnification or when using dark-field so if you get a scope with LED make sure it's 3+ watts if you plan on doing 2500x mag with oil immersion... They all have a fine tuning knob to darken it.

Next I highly highly HIGHLY recommend a dark field attachment. It enhances the light transmission amazingly, instead of the light passing through the object it lights it instead. If your scope didn't come with it, you can usually buy the attachment separate. Trust me though you will enjoy your scope so much more using it with a dry dark-field adapter. Here is a video that we took of a coral using a dark-field lens. https://www.instagram.com/p/BHm029dB6Og/?taken-by=arcreef&hl=en

Next you mention that someone said to get a 2500x mag minimum. I don't think this is sound advice at all. Over 1500x you need to use oil to even be able to use that lens. You will rarely use over 1000x if almost ever. Also the more the magnification the higher quality the lens needs to be, so 2000x mag on a $300 will not give you the same sharpness, depth of field, and focus as on a $2,000 scope..... but at 100x they will be identical.

Here is a link to a scope on amazon that has a good set of features, this scope is my personal recommendation in the sub $300 price range. 3w LED, Darkfield, 2000x, At around $300 it comes with everything a hobbyist would need or want really. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006BGVIMQ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I would also order slides and covers because they are single use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JKPZONO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

After you get good you can order other fun things like the adapter for a DSLR camera, wireless cam, color stains, and much more. If you don't have an SLR camera just use your phone on the eyepiece, I've seen students of ours do entire microbiology PHD's using their Iphone to record everything.

I notice that some of the Amscopes upgrade you around $50-$60 for a camera adapter. Here's one for Canon for $15 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QR44STM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This is just an adapter (no additional eyepiece zoom) If you want more zoom you'll be adding glass, I like this adapter because it doesn't have any glass, it's hollow. (your not going to get good glass on a $50 adapter so I feel it's best not to have it)

Hope this helps you out a little and good luck!

 

[jason2459]

Personally I'd rather save up and get a nice phase contrast lens over a darkfield.

And I get multi use out of some of my more expensive slides. I wet mount everything.

 

[petemichelle]

If you want to look at things right inside the tank there is another device called an Ogles mesoscope. Unfortunately, their site says they are having a problem with their manufacturer. You could look into a used one if this sounds interesting. I have one and love it. It sticks to the glass and can focus from ~ 70mm to over 3 feet deep...very cool.

Does anybody know where to get an "Ogles Mesoscope"? it's just what i"m looking for...

 

[samnaz]

Does anybody know where to get an "Ogles Mesoscope"? it's just what i"m looking for...

I might be interested in this as well...

 

[Charterreefer]

Does anybody know where to get an "Ogles Mesoscope"? it's just what i"m looking for...

It would be nice to see someone in This country come up with a tool like the Ogles mesoscope. There is a big enough market (now that this hobby has become so popular in the last 5 + years). It brings reefkeeping to a whole new level. It makes just looking at live rock exciting, lol!

 

[bh750]

Hey all, we run a full service lab so thought we could chime in to help out a little on this topic. I saw that Bob already stated lots of really great info so hopefully we can add something to the talk also.

For what you are looking to accomplish there are 2 totally different types of microscopes. A regular "compound microscope" (the ones that your links are of) basically for looking into or through something, and then a stereo microscope, for looking at or onto something that is opaque, used for dissections and looking at things like circuit boards. While I'm sure you're looking for a compound microscope, it's good to know the differences and know that to look at different things you may need different types of microscopes. (Future reef2reefs may one day be talking about which electron microscope to buy on amazon for $300, how cool huh!)

LED or halogen, LED is usually a few bucks more and slightly less bright than halogens, (low-mid grade scopes) LED also offers the user the distinct advantage of not changing the temperature of the slide. Halogens can cause the slide to heat and then things to move all around or even the slide to dry eventually. The older LED's were all 1 watt, which is perfect at 40x mag but a tad bit dark at high magnification or when using dark-field so if you get a scope with LED make sure it's 3+ watts if you plan on doing 2500x mag with oil immersion... They all have a fine tuning knob to darken it.

Next I highly highly HIGHLY recommend a dark field attachment. It enhances the light transmission amazingly, instead of the light passing through the object it lights it instead. If your scope didn't come with it, you can usually buy the attachment separate. Trust me though you will enjoy your scope so much more using it with a dry dark-field adapter. Here is a video that we took of a coral using a dark-field lens. https://www.instagram.com/p/BHm029dB6Og/?taken-by=arcreef&hl=en

Next you mention that someone said to get a 2500x mag minimum. I don't think this is sound advice at all. Over 1500x you need to use oil to even be able to use that lens. You will rarely use over 1000x if almost ever. Also the more the magnification the higher quality the lens needs to be, so 2000x mag on a $300 will not give you the same sharpness, depth of field, and focus as on a $2,000 scope..... but at 100x they will be identical.

Here is a link to a scope on amazon that has a good set of features, this scope is my personal recommendation in the sub $300 price range. 3w LED, Darkfield, 2000x, At around $300 it comes with everything a hobbyist would need or want really. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006BGVIMQ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I would also order slides and covers because they are single use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JKPZONO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

After you get good you can order other fun things like the adapter for a DSLR camera, wireless cam, color stains, and much more. If you don't have an SLR camera just use your phone on the eyepiece, I've seen students of ours do entire microbiology PHD's using their Iphone to record everything.

I notice that some of the Amscopes upgrade you around $50-$60 for a camera adapter. Here's one for Canon for $15 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QR44STM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This is just an adapter (no additional eyepiece zoom) If you want more zoom you'll be adding glass, I like this adapter because it doesn't have any glass, it's hollow. (your not going to get good glass on a $50 adapter so I feel it's best not to have it)

Hope this helps you out a little and good luck!

Wow. Thanks so much for the detailed response. I've read it over several times to try an understand everything.

I'm also now comparing the scope I already purchased Amscope T360C (hasn't yet arrived) and the T340B-DK-LED you recommended.

Seems like the only difference is the dark field like you said. You think it's that much better? I'm not against returning my order and paying shipping if the one you recommended is better for my needs. I just want to make the best purchase I can make.

Will keep reading!

 

[jason2459]

Wow. Thanks so much for the detailed response. I've read it over several times to try an understand everything.

I'm also now comparing the scope I already purchased Amscope T360C (hasn't yet arrived) and the T340B-DK-LED you recommended.

Seems like the only difference is the dark field like you said. You think it's that much better? I'm not against returning my order and paying shipping if the one you recommended is better for my needs. I just want to make the best purchase I can make.

Will keep reading!

It also has a 3w LED vs 1w which will be useful over 1000x and closed diaphragm to push higher contrast.

 

[bh750]

It also has a 3w LED vs 1w which will be useful over 1000x and closed diaphragm to push higher contrast.

So you think it's a better option than the T360C?

 

[jason2459]

So you think it's a better option than the T360C?

It's probably slightly better.

 

[bh750]

hey another quick question. To ARCReefs point above. Im looking at using one of the following to attach my Nikon DSLR camera to the scope. One is just an adapter for like $15 and the other seems to have "glass" and magnify it 2x for $90. I agree it sounds like the more expensive option might not be worth 6x the price?

Option #1 15 - https://www.amazon.com/Solomark-Cam...&keywords=nikon+Camera+adapter+for+microscope

Option #2 $90 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005OZ4BME/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Rick.45cal]

I've actually asked a couple folks about this, but would also like to hear an opinions on Darkfield vs Phase contrast. I've looked at both

 

[becks]

No where near the same budget as the op is looking at, but would this be enough to id diatoms, Dino, cyano and other algaes?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/M30-ABS-KT...TF8&qid=1491771314&sr=8-6&keywords=Microscope

 

[jason2459]

No where near the same budget as the op is looking at, but would this be enough to id diatoms, Dino, cyano and other algaes?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/M30-ABS-KT...TF8&qid=1491771314&sr=8-6&keywords=Microscope

It would. At least get a general ID or at least have some fun looking around. My old microscope was much like that one with a tungsten lamp.

 

[bh750]

Ok to summarize where I am, I currently have two (2) microscopes coming this week! along with two accessories.

First the scopes:

1) Amscope T360C - http://www.amscope.com/led-trinocular-biological-compound-microscope-40x-2500x.html

2) Amscope T340B-DK-LED -http://www.amscope.com/40x-2000x-3w-led-trinocular-darkfield-and-brightfield-compound-microscope.html

I ordered the 2nd one b/c this thread (thank you) swayed me to try out the darkfield (still have to learn what that really is). My plan is to return the T360C.

Then:

I also ordered something to connect my Nikon D40 DSLR camera to get good pictures. I had two options and wound up ordering two different adaptors:

1) First one just seems like a piece that replaces the lens on my camera and connects to the top of the microscope. $15. http://www.amscope.com/nikon-slr-dslr-camera-adapter-1x-for-microscopes.html

2) The other one does the same however seems to have some "glass" that magnifies the picture (maybe? Not sure) for $90. - http://www.amscope.com/nikon-slr-dslr-camera-adapter-for-microscopes.html

My plan here is to try out both, if possible, and return one.

I also ordered a pack of 100 slides. I know I need to order a cleaning kit at some point. I've heard sometimes these Amscopes don't come with manuals. So this should be a fun ride!

As stated originally, my first task is to take some of the red stuff that's growing on my sandbed and figuring out, once and for all, WHAT IT IS!!!
As soon as I'm humanly possible I'll post a new ID thread. Will also do the same with the Dinos that creep up from time to time.

Thanks all! More later!